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older femmes
I am an older femme - I am not trying to create issues but I have noticed we are not very welcome in certain quarters - where are the women and butches (I will not get intol the label game :) for older femmes :) )cougar like skate boarding is not a crime!!
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Welcome!!
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What quarters have you experienced this in? I'm no spring chicken and haven't experienced it here or anywhere else.. Or maybe I didn't notice, there are some folks who are into Older Femme younger _____ kinda relationships, fucks, trists, rolls in the hay, gatherings, in bars..... |
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nor have I.....all the sandboxes are welcoming...and they all play nicely!!
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Speaking for myself, it's about a femme's maturity, which has nothing to do with age. Not sure where you're feeling like you don't fit in but certainly, if people attempt to make you feel uncomfortable or unwelcome, it isn't your problem, it's theirs.
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Make that another who has not been subjected to ageism. I spend most of my time in the threads and very little in chat but have found both places very welcoming nonetheless. I agree with ButchEire...don't the let the actions of a few ruin your experience here.
Cheers, Scoobs |
As a femme who will turn 60 next month (Holy shit, batman!), I think for ME, any ageism I may have felt was probably self-inflicted. And projected. I have been scared, and self-conscious about my age, figuring that there would be no one out there who would want someone like ME. Bah!
I have spoken to a few butches on here, that may have started out "hot and heavy" and yeah, they may have cooled soon after we BOTH found the difference in ages. No problem, no foul, what we ended up with is a friendship. I *like* friends, don't know about anyone else. I have come to accept just what an amazing woman I AM, what a great wonderful hot catch I will be, and no one but ME can take that away from me. I have decided to guard that about me now. I know there are some young studs that may just not get what I could offer. Truth be told, I don't actually think I WANT to offer that to just anyone anymore. I want to offer my best to someone that can actually take it and appreciate it for what it is. Personally, I am talking to a woman right now, a butch that is going to be 48 next month. We talked about the age difference, long and hard. She has only ever dated women her age or younger, never someone older at all. She and I both had to decide if this is something that we could work with. We have decided to take a chance and continue getting to know each other. Great! I will tell you this.... she told me this morning when I spoke to her, that I was "scary hot".... I wasn't sure what that meant or if I should be offended and hurt... she said that she has never known a woman who has as much to offer, physically, emotionally, mentally, intellectually as I have shown in the time I have known her. She wants more... of ME, the almost-60 yr old woman! How cool is THAT???? You will find someone. We all will. I only know for ME that I had to find ME first before someone else could find me, and appreciate me. |
Pssst...Maturity is a sexy quality..smiles
And I have noticed most people on here value it highly. There has been a couple times I was degraded here..actually almost left. But much to my suprise..people stopped me. I really do not think this is about AGE honestly. I see it more as people acting imature due to seeing something in you they lack. Or that they want and are threatened. Pay it no mind..it goes away shortly...smiling Be proud of your age..You earned every second, every grey hair and every beautiful wriknle you have.! |
How older?
There seem to be a whole sexy set of Butches of all ages into older Femmes! :):hangloose: |
I'm fairly confident that there are more attributes that play into who we are attracted to, than age—its the whole package.
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I just had a lovely conversation with someone recently who had spent more than ten years in a relationship with a femme 20 years her senior. They had a lovely relationship. It can be just as successful as any relationship, whether there's age differences or not. It's not the numbers that count; it is the people.
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I'm ageist.
There. I said it. I've dated people much younger (18 years) than me. They were sexy, hot, and rocked my world. Did we have differences due to the age gap? Yes. Were they insurmountable? No. Did it bother me that I was a year older than his mother? Yes, absolutely. As the "scary hot" APG stated, I made more about the age difference than mr. younger butch (who is a member here). He never brought it up. I did all the time. In the end, age wasn't what caused us to part as lovers--it was another hangup on my side. We are still good friends (thank goodness). I am now involved with someone who is 3 years younger. For me, this works better. And it is simply my hangup with the age gap so I learned that about me. To the OP's question, about not being accepted in certain quarters, I am going to assume that's in your community? Check meetup.com. I know Austin's Lesbian meetup has an older group meetup as well as an under 30 meetup. |
Unless I am totally oblivious, and I can honestly say I am not. I have NEVER encountered any issues regarding my age. I am fifty. AARP won't let me forget it, as they send me a membership kit every single month. (I'm NOT gonna join, so quit sending em LOL) I personally like myself better at fifty than I did even when I was forty. I am more comfortable in my own skin. I know what I want. Where I have been and where I want to end up. I feel like I really came into who I am in the past few years. Everyone is different, but this is my experience.
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I love that this thread is in the troubleshooting section.:coffee:
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cant resist posting this
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I think a troubleshooting section for
relationship's is genius. not sure it would really help but I hear what your laying down. eh now my post's wont make sense but what else is new :| |
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heavy caveats |
I am an older femme, I didn't always like saying it until the last few years. But I've come to realize it's a privilege that I embrace within myself. I 'm proud of the lessons i 've experienced whether good or bad. How else could I have learned things in life? So for all you older planeteers and the young ones following in our footsteps ... be proud of getting older !
PS: If I knew I would of lived this long I would of taken better care of myself so take this piece of advice and run with it :koolaid: |
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This really is a whole new culture, with new rules and ways of behavior. And if I am to navigate this new lifestyle, I need conversations, life experiences, words of wisdom, and friendships and companions to help me along the way. I have been blessed with great butch bros who are all younger than I am, some younger than my own grown children. They have watched my back since I came out, often like a gang of Irish brothers with baseball bats, as I make forays out into this world. I love every one of them, though I have not met a single one in real time yet. I've made my share of really bad mistakes, even with this support, but I am one step closer to being whole because of them. So being an older femme for me has been a challenge and one that I'm still trying to find a comfortable fit with. |
I don't get the whole "older femme" thing. I mean, aren't we all older than someone? Even when we are in our 20s?
Aren't we all getting older every day? I look at some of my patients and see those precious hands of theirs. I think....those hands diapered babies, took care of their kids, families, other people. Just because they are more mature than the used to be they are still the same hands. I guess i would be considered "older" by some people. And then again by others i would be considered young. As far as the love and romantic part....Love knows no age, but i do believe that partnering with someone who doesn't have the same interests, music, movies, ect can pose some challenges. But, such is life. I have an aunt that was very wise. Some may find it morbid but i think i get her message. Her tombstone says this: Where ye stand i once stood, where i lay you shall lay. It will happen. Time keeps on moving....it doesn't stop for anyone. It's all perspective, yes? |
I know for a fact that John Shaft digs older chicks.
Just saying. |
I have avoided posting in this thread because I am touchy about being an older femme.
In my mind, I ways expected to be and to look like, I did in my 20's. I was frozen in time while in my 19-year relationship with my ex-butch. I felt like Rippeda Von Winkle when I ended it. I could not ignore that I was older, that it was a different dating world as an older femme and then there were all the gender issues I had never been exposed to or had dealt with in a strictly lesbian world. Long story short, I really thougt I would be alone forever until I forced myself to start dating again. Very, very difficult for me! I had lived as a hermit, just me and my dogs for almost 10 years. I am so glad that I did start dating again. No, I do not look like I did I did in my 20's, etc. but it has become far, far less important to me than it did when I was first single. I did meet and fall in love with my butch. She is a decade younger than I. That is also a little hard to write. Shouldn't be- in our society we no longer look at a man dating a woman 10 years his junior as unusual, but it has taken me some time to accept our age difference. The funny thing is that it really is all in my head. In actuality, we have very similar backgrounds, shared interests and most important-our core values and outlook on life is remarkably similar. The sexual chemistry is electric-something else I thought I would never, ever have again in my life. My butch is really my soul-mate. The one I have always searched for on an unconscious level and did not find until now. We are never too old to find love and unless we risk, we will never know what joy we may find by simply never giving up hope and believing that we deserve to be loved. |
I am an older woman with AARP credentials. I prefer being with and around people from my own era. Younger people are cool too but I find them to be exhausting. LOL. And, older femmes, to me, have beauty that just defies words. More often than not, they know exactly who they are, what they want, where they are going, and who is likely to be a good companion for the trip. Life experience brings with it a wisdom and settledness that is both grounding and exhilarating. Besides, I like when someone knows exactly what I mean when I say the spirit is willing but the body is not. ;) |
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As always you articulate often what the rest of us want to. Time and tide wait for no one. Your Aunt was a wise woman. ~ SJ_fsu |
When I joined the ranks of AARP last year, I had no issue with it. For me, each year that I grow older, is another year that I have grown wiser, gotten more comfortable in my own skin and have beaten death.
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I've always been honest about my age and although sometimes I'd love to turn back the hands of time, I'm ok with be a 52 year old experienced woman.
I've always dated younger simply because I have a lot of energy and tend to date people that are very active. This is not to say older folks aren't active, some are but in the circles I traveled they were not. I guess I'm also attracted to innocence even if it's all in my head. I am often approached by very young butches, however the youngest I'll date at this stage of my life is 38. I think it's that dommie mommy thing that intrigues them. I don't notice anyone treating me different because I'm older. Then again I probably wouldnt care. |
Sachita,
I agree with you about younger companions. They do keep you feeling young. I think, for me, it was covering music for so long that I feel that way. Though I've interviewed music icons, it's the younger emerging musicians who had found their way musically into a sort of energetic maturity that were my inspiration. I tend to relate to that youthful creative vigor. I hope that I carry that into my daily walk, but balance it with some wisdom along the way. |
I have certainly experienced ageism as an older butch here- but usually it has been due to quite a bit younger folks just not even being close to thinking about aging. That, I have not felt was some put down as such. And with some pointing out of things like age stereotyping and discussion, I usually have felt that there has been a positive exchange.
However, I have gotten a bit ticked in threads such as crushing ones wherein pics seem to always be 20 & 30 some things- usually of the celebrity variety, including butch pics posted. and it seems like every time a butch calendar is put together there are few, if any "hot" (which could mean many different things) older butches in them. And to be honest, I feel that some of the threads like this seem to me (speaking for myself) to be far more often ageist toward femmes. Just feels that way. Also, older femmes that are my friends have said this to me. I have found that I in those kinds of threads, I will post a pic of an older woman. Yes, there are celeb women I think are attractive, but I have just developed a sensitivity about this on the B-F websites (used to be on the old site). I have always felt comfortable within varying age groups. part of this might be due to having a teaching background although I certainly have/have had community college and university students from the late teens to over 60. With dating and relationships, I have tended to stay within 5 years either way of my own age. Most people think I am younger than I am (although, lately, I don't know- have had a couple of rough years in which I feel I have aged). I have never sought out someone a lot younger than myself and my cut off age is my son's age (44). LOL, that feels a lot younger to me! In real time, I have a close femme friend that is 32 and she is a very wise and mature woman. I have a close man friend in his mid seventies, too. I am an active person- although I do have some severe arthritis- always have been as physically active as possible- so I do tend to hang with more active people. Some with physical challenges, some not. Yes, people with disabilities can be quite active! Yes, in real-time, I see far too many examples of ageism! |
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That being said, I don't draw severe serious age boundaries when I choose my friends. I have some younger than my children who are in their early 30s and I have a couple who are a decade or so older. I try to find folks who have active minds even though they may not have as active bodies as they once did. I have found "old" minded people (read: stodgy, depressed, negative sorts) in very young bodies. And I've also found wise old souls among youthful people. I chose my friends based on who they are inside, regardless of age or race or religion or life experience. As for a dating range, I will dip well below my age if the person is mature and fun and will go over my age if the person is energetic and interesting. But I try not to date anyone I could be the parent of. When I go out, I want others to see two relative equals. |
If you live in the United States and I guess just about anywhere else on the planet, you're going to be subjected to cultural ageism. After all, it sells products!
I think it's true though, that many women's communities are less ageist than the general culture. In the straight culture—not that there's just one straight culture—but in general, a woman in her forties or god forbid, older, really doesn't have a statistical prayer in finding a partner. On the other hand, lesbians, butch-femme people, others in the women's communities, can find lots of people their age looking to date. For the sake of full disclosure, I will say that about five or six years ago I noticed in a butch-femme dating site I won't name (because it really is a good site and I wouldn't want to discourage people from using it), that most of the butches my age were looking for women at least ten years younger than they were! I felt very discouraged. But now I don't think that's the norm; it could have just been a fluke or some little cultural eddy I got pulled into; some trend of defiantly emulating the worst of straight culture, who knows. But I do know it doesn't seem a trend, at least in the little peeks at butch-femme culture I get these days. And besides, women's communities tend to be less sexist, and the less sexist a group is, the less likely they are to devalue a woman because she is aging. Hence, I like it here! |
Dont knock AARP. I was given a membership by my sister (OLDER SISTER ...lol> We tease each other who is oldest) and lo and behold, it saved me $216 on my prescription glasses and frames...to the point that the eye vision place let me use the discount to "up" my frame from the medicaid ones to Ed Hardy ones! I was floored! So I get new hot frames because I am 55! (and have an older sister who loves me..lol)
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as for ageism I actually did find ageism in an ex while we were together. It was one thing for him to get old and soft and wrinkled but he had a real problem with his femmes doing so.
Other than him tho, I havent run into it again. In fact, I have only been courted by fine butches of age as I grew older. I have made it clear how attracted I am to silver hair butches. Always have been, even in my 30s. Its only gotten stronger as I got older. I cant imagine young hands touching me. The thought doesnt appeal to me at all. I am much more myself as I age. I have let go of several self induced expecations of Self that truly werent me at all. I am so fluid in my Being, and am so happy with Me, that I no longer concern myself with the worries I had as a young one. I think alot of that does have to do with my Self and the energy I offer. I am not meek. I am very self confident. And I am compassionate and caring. And I love well. And I dont tolerate silliness (in a bad sense, not a haha sense) in character, so people know that when they are chosen to be part of my life, it is a sign of respect as well as interest. When you offer respect, it is a big draw. When you deserve respect, that too is a big draw... |
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Job market but otherwise, I haven't noticed or maybe I don't want to:hk34:
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I'm having a bit of an issue with my age and level of experience in life/sex today. Two of my exes are now seeing girls 10 years my jr. Both of them are dead sweet, lovely, intelligent girls. They also have smooth, lovely skin, pert tits and round firm asses. Oh an long dark curly hair.
My wife ran off with someone with no experience, straight girl that turned out to be not straight - so that triggers a bunch of political stuff for me... and the other girl is just a doe eye'd sweet girl with some, but not a heap, of experience. I'm feeling a bit old a battle scarred today. I know I have a ton of experience and that's all grand, but it tends to paint me as a cougar type older femme and to be perfectly honest, I'm just not. I'm just as sweet, soft and vulnerable as I was in my 30's. I'm tired of 20-30 something dykes coming up to me and telling me "oooo I bet you'll eat me for breckfast!" No I fucking won't, actually. Piss off! I don't want to be pegged into the Mature experienced woman who will show you things and unlock your secret desires then you can fuck off with those new skills and go pull sweet innocent things. I've got a side to me that seems to be more invisible with age. If I'm maternal, dominant, firm handed, experienced and a bit tough... then as I age that's all jim dandy. But my sweet, vulnerable girl side seems to become more and more invisible and unacknowledged. It was fine to be that way till I hit 40. Then I've been thrust into a different realm of how my femininity should be played out in terms of desirability. And I've never been hacked off about aging before - I've always been relieved by it. But today when I was doing massage work on my ex's new gf (we were over before she met her) and I was running my hands over her 10 year younger body and listening to my ex tell me "she's lovely and sweet, isn't she?? what do you think? you like her??" in the kitchen... yeah, I do like her. She really is a lovely person. But I feel, if I'm totally honest, banged up and worse for wear. And like a part of me is utterly invisible. So how does femininity age? I feel shoved into a different "role" if you like as an older and, frankly over-expereinced femme. Having given sex seminars, worked in sex shops, done phone sex, webcam girl and pro-domme (that's a job, not exactly who I am), written about dyke sex, shown quite a few butches/genderqueer/androgdykes their first connection with their female dick... I don't get to be viewed as the sweet girl that I am. I don't know how to make people still see her. So I'm trying things to make her more visible. Like stopping swearing, not maybe dressing quite so femme-fatal. Reminding people my favorite flower is daisies. How do other femmes deal with this switch over and being thrust into Mature femininity? I feel a massive loss. And to be honest it really hurts. I think about Maude from the Movie Harold & Maude (on of my most favourite romance films) and Maude is incredibly sweet, charming, funny, delightful and full of a mature and experienced innocence that I wish I could convey. I adore Maude. You can still clearly see the spritely girl she is. But yes, do others feel this pressure in femininity, a shift as they age? Maybe I'm just feeling it more having had two ex's select girls 10 years my jr with little experience. |
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