Do you *want* people to assume you're a man?
 

In my thread about my doctor esperience, I made mention of the fact that if you saw me, you might assume I'm male. I was asked if I liked the idea of "passing". I replied that I hate that I can/do "pass". What does everyone else think?

Seriously.

No I do not.

Yes, it is an issue for butch women.

I shoot for human being first, followed closely by somewhat smart and funny. As long as people are nice to me, how they perceive me is entirely up to them.

Doesn't MIT offer gender studies classes?
 

steph did you really go to MIT!!?!! ;) :) I am just kidding with you.


I am gonna assume that if you are not a man, or identify as a man, then your not going to like being referred to, or mistaken as a man. It is just that simple.

How do you handle it when you "steph" are mistaken for a man?

Another interesting topic...

Snow-Gender Studies doesn't overlap with Physics AFAIK. ;)

Um women wear jeans and t shirt too.

I understand the underlying stuff that's going on, but I am real confused why people don't understand the issue of butch women not wanting to be seen as men. Oh well, learn something new every day.

most female id'ed butches i know want to be perceived as women. most male id'ed and trans butches i know want to be perceived as men.

clothing doesn't "make" one's gender id. i agree with bulldog...jeans and t-shirts are not just for men.

this.

i know what charming is talking about, and i know what bulldog is talking about. we are all just different and assuming is most often not a good thing to do.

truth. i like doing tomboy stuff. i'm not a man. i like being a woman. just because i have a ball cap on, ... don't assume i'm male. men don't own the patent to ball caps.

I went ahead and deleted my message, I dont want to cause drama in this thread,

What I said was misunderstood and I am sorry, have a good day all

Dressing masculine, I dunno Cajun, I dress in guys jeans,cargo shorts,t shirts, baseball cap, boxers,wifebeaters,v neck white shirts, I buy from the mens section,

Put WAY better than I could've/did!

I really don't care if a store clerk or someone like that temporarily mistakes me for a man. But I don't want to be viewed like a man or seen as a man or treated as man. It also doesn't surprise me that butches who prefer male pronouns wouldn't care.

I do wear all mens clothes and I am a butch woman. :)

I know this has been brought up before but I'll say it here. Referring to your tee-shirts as W**B###%# is not cool.

I wasn't born with a handbook that said I had to dress in certain clothes, and certain colors. It bothers me that along with gender assignment so many think the outer part has to meet the so called "normal" look.

let see , yes i get called Sir alot in public , and I dress in mens clothing , shop in mens wear dept . yes I have the facial hair , have i takin t-shot ? NO ! but sometimes I think and react like a male ..but who doesnt ? each person can act and think in thier own way! some use the hy , he , boi , boy but as I said each to thier own and do i get double takeing looks ? bet your ass I do , do I care ? hell no ..I am me.:cigar :cigar2:

I apologize if that reference offended you , I didn't realize but I dont like them being called that either I just didn't know what else they are called, tank tops I guess hope that's better , id take the reference out of my post but cant from my phone.

That was exactly what I was trying to say thank you ,Nik

Help!
 

Hi:)

I'm gonna help you out since no one else has, the t-shirts are called A Line shirts, tank tops, or better yet Wife Pleasers:)

OOPS I'm on my phone didn't see where folks helped you out!!!!


Thanks everyone!

Thank you Lady, I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

No thank you!
 

Hang in there CB! It's rough but you'll catch on quick!

Curious
 

Steph, I find it funny (not in a ha ha way) that you've not shared your experience on how you feels when mistaken for a man.

How come?

Fair enough. When it happens, and it doesn't happen often, I just gently correct them, by telling them my name. :D

Easy Peazy
 

Right?!


That's the polite thing to do:)


Thanks!

In another thread I saw a butch call them wife-lovers.

I think that is kind of cute!

CrAps spider laThe PHONE!!!'

I am continuously mistaken for male.... until they see my chest area. Then they backstep and apologize and blah blah blah. I don't dress nor act the part to be seen as male. I am me and I walk the streets as the person that I am comfortable being. If this is what most perceive to be male, then there ya go.... It doesn't bother me in the least to be called sir, buddy or male. I answer to any of it. I leave the interpretation of what is seen to the individual. If it makes the other person more comfortable to see me as male then fine, or female then fine. I know I am a female. I know I appear to be male.

Do I "want" people to assume I am a man? It really doesn't bother me in the least. I've never felt icky about it or bad, sad angry, in fact there are times it feels kinda good. Actually more often than not (when it happens). :)

Thinkin'
 

I can see where that would be comfy if said butch identified as man or is man (self-made ) etc.


But if said butch didn't then a polite correction is gonna happen because people either forget or weren't taught that masculinity is not for just "man".


Butch woman is a perfect example of female masculinity at it's finest, that's where we go wrong with that whole gender assigning crap!!

StephFromMIT,

I've heard people outside the GLBT community ask questions like, "If you like masculine women, why aren't you with a man?" or "Why do they dress like that? Do they want to be men?"

To me, your question, "Do you want people to assume you're a man?" is kind of in that category. It's a question I would never have thought to ask, myself, and have never heard one LGBT person ask another, so it really caught my eye.

Steph, have you known butch women (who were not trans), who wanted people to assume they were men?

It would be interesting to hear about that.

I have never known a butch woman who wanted people to think she's a man.

And so far, no one responding on this thread has said she wants people to assume she's a man, though some have said that when it happens, they aren't bothered.

Thank you for answering my question, above.

Scout

your welcome Charming :)

Interesting thread

I am seeing two types of answers
a) what do we want
b) what do we get

Ok, a third
c) how do we feel about the match/mismatch between the two

I'm enjoying seeing the variety in the answers so far. I'll toss in my two cents with the up front codicil that I am only relating my opinion and fully respect the opinions of others that differ from mine.

What I want for myself is to just be a person. No gender label need be applied, no preferred pronouns. Just a person/human/being. A while back someone else coined the term gender-free and I like it. I happily answer to things like my name, or even "Hey you!"

Yeah well, we don't live in that world. What I get labeled by others seems to be as dependent on location as much as anything else. I noticed this especially on a road trip I took by myself last summer. Where I live now has a high percentage of gay population, very liberal politics, and folks are used to looking before speaking. I am usually addressed as female. When I was out driving through a variety different towns of varying sizes and political climates, mileage varied. I chose a route of "blue roads", two lane highways with some mid-sized and many small to tiny towns along the way. My experience was that the mid sized towns yielded the most blunder type incidences of being called Sir and if noticed we would just have a bit of a laugh. (I try to put people at easy and really don't care anyway). The small towns, pop. over say 1000, were where I encountered the most real confusion and the folks seemed defensive, even if I said nothing, and a couple of times I encountered open hostility. I found it interesting in light of that, the tiny towns pop. less than 500 down to 39, seemed to find my appearance totally normal. I think maybe because these were ranch and farm towns where everyone was in "work" (male) clothes and no one thought twice about it. Even my crew cut didn't phase anyone and I was referred to as female. Of course this only applied to this one person on a trip that only covered three states and one province.

So, for me it varies. As far as match/mismatch goes, they both kind of bother me because I don't see a need for assigning gender in general public settings. Is "Good morning miss, ma'am, sir, fella" somehow better or more appropriate than just "Good morning"?

Recognizing I am probably in the minority on this, just wanted to toss my hat in the ring.

Island-I have many Militia teamates who are butch, though I don't think they male ID.