Protecting our Butches
 

Today, the kids were gone so my wife and I decided to take in a movie. Of course, being Femme, I naturally come across more typically straight and my OFOS Butch wife, comes across as clearly Butch.

We find an aisle we want to sit in and two men are sitting at the end, blocking it. We say we want to sit in the aisle and at first the men attempt to move for ME to get by, then they notice my wife, who cam up behind me and they stop, shake their head and gave my wife a dirty look! My wife just stands there and calmly stares back at them. I notice how large they are, bigger than either of us, and I take her arm and she says "we can go around this way" I present them my back and go off proudly on my wifes arm. I so wanted to start something about their lack of manners, but my fear of causing an incident was more, we live in the Midwest. The woman in the couple behind where we ended up sitting, said something to her husband about how "those men made them go all the way around because they were too rude to move" which made me feel a bit better about it all. I guess they saw the homophobia in action and were upset by it.

I told my wife later that I was angry, and should have remarked on their rudeness, to which she says "it took their fun away to have you act like a lady and not start something they could blame on us, they would have liked for trouble to happen so they could say 'see? that is how dykes are' and blame us." I was not happy with that answer and am still angry about it all. She also mentioned that she was 'used' to it from some males and that is what Butches had to deal with. I an upset and want to cry about it, so I didn't know where to go and unload except to my Femme sisters who would understand.

We have had things like this happen before and always want to step up and protect her, by addressing it. She said that I would 'unbutch' her by thinking I have to protect her(instead of the other way around) and to let her take care of things. How else do I show my love for who she is unless I standup against that crap? On the other hand, is getting into a fight with men that top me by 100 pounds really helping any? She could get very hurt by stepping in to protect me if I opened my mouth, it would not help. I am SO frustrated and angry about it. Any advice, or anyone else go through this type of thing?

Pretty normal thing in the Gulf Coast area. I have become very thick skinned and generally try to ignore. I will go out of my way to avoid trouble if my femme is with me. It is usually 2 or 3 men together acting the ass. If I am alone I can at times stand up to their confrontation ... especially if I am already hurting or angry about something or am having a bad day. Not saying my behavior is smart but it gets old.

I think your butch handled this situation well.

So far, I have all my teeth. ;)

Rudeness in the world of life is sometimes a pain in the ass,dealing with it can be an iffy thing to contend with.So far I am still in one piece,tho I often wonder how I managed to be after all this time.I don't have anyone to have my back when I have issues happen so I try to use humor or ignore them and go on my way,easy..no but often works.When it doesn't I do what I need to do to get by without the loss of blood,body parts and teeth.I walk with a cane a lot to ease my left knee but it is also a weapon of choice,the handle is made of metal and the bottom is fixed with a good size stainless bolt my son put on it right above the bottom end of it that is hell on knees,crotches,toes and what have you...it is also a good blocking tool.Now and then I get a smart ass at one of the pool halls I go to or in the store,generaly one of the wait staff,bartender or the owner puts a stop to it then kicks the perp out of the place with a strong warning.The only time I had an issue was at my home pool hall when some jerk said I butted in line to get my order then wanted to make a big thing about it,the bartender told him he had hie beer and to move on but he was in a pissy mood and got bent out of shape.All I did was lay my cane on top of the bar with one hand on it then stare'd him down with the coldest look I had.He sputter'd around a bit then saw he didn't have an audience then walked away.This crap is something we butches have dealt with and will always deal with,but as the things that are changing hope it will become less as times go's on.Having someone who has you back is priceless.

I am sorry to hear what happened to you and your butch Femminator. I have encountered homophobia like this from time to time. I have had guys basically corner me in a restaurant, sitting so I was basically hemmed in and talking crude, guy sitting next to me on the bus harassing me about my small amount of facial hair, a guy asking my femme friend why she would want to be with such an ugly dyke, etc. There are other incidences also. In all these cases my reaction is to give them no reaction and calmly walk away. They don't deserve a response from me. I think it is truly pathetic.

I know femmes tend to feel fiercely protective of butch partners and friends, and we do truly appreciate it. To me the best feeling is for her to just show how much she is happy to be with me- whether as friend or partner- and just walk away with me. The fact that a nice femme enjoys my company is worth far more than anything they can do or say. Rise above the idiots. Anyway, that is my preference.

Thanks you to those that have already posted. I really thought about it today, and I guess you never know if someone is drunk, high or has a gun or knife. It still makes me angry but those losers were alone, and it's obvious why. I can't imagine a straight girl putting up with that type of rudeness and ignorance, at least my straight gal pals would not.

It really makes me worry for my Butch out there.

On the inside, I'm fiercely protective of my butch and I will stare someone down or call them out on their rudeness (if it's obvious, I miss subtle). However, there is something to be said for taking the high road and not sinking to their level.

Being calm and rational in the face of unreasonable behavior is often the best course of action. This way, they don't have the satisfaction of saying, "You see that? Those queers are all nuts!"

Now, that being said, if anybody starts a physical altercation and my butch gets knocked down for the count, I'm pretty much going out of this world like a Klingon*. Just sayin'.

(For those of you who are not geeks like me, a Klingon is a warrior race from the Star Trek universe. Their preferred method of departing the physical plane is combat).

;)

When we're out in public i am very aware of the danger my wife might face, because everything about her screams that she is out and proud.

I can count on one hand the times that anyone has said anything or done anything in my presence. Fortunately, or unfortunately as the case may be, all i have to do is look at someone and they think twice about causing a problem. I can say go ahead, give me an excuse to fuck you up with just one look, and the size to make it a valid threat. My wife has a fiery irish temper, but it takes a great deal to even begin to bother her.

At almost 62 she has learned to let it all slide off her back.

One night very late ,my ex and I went to get ciggs, ( we both smoked at the time ) so we stopped at a self serve gas station, Ths guy approached hm and was begging for money . When hy declined to give this guy money he became very aggressive towards hym, S I put my car in drive and chased him all aound the parking lot, he was running and running , when myex was finished w/ purchased I pickd hym up and off we went.

I came across this thread as I was exploring, and I figured I'd add my two cents, for what it's worth. And since other butches have replied, I figured it was okay.

I get where the aggravation stems from in that type of scenario where people are being blatantly rude. I have experienced my share.

People stare because of how I dress or how my hair is cut. Heck, not even having to due with being butch, but when I wear shorts in the summer people stare at the scar from my knee surgery.

As sad as it may sound, I've sort of gotten used to it. Most of the time I don't even notice. Or if someone mistakenly calls me sir, I let it go. But it frustrates my mom and sister to no end. And there has been a time or two where they've caused a scene.

So I guess where I'm going with this is, this sort of thing happens. As terrible as it is. Kobi is right; people can be rude. But I know, for me personally, knowing that my family and loved ones see it and don't accept it makes me feel good in a way too. I don't need their protection, but it's nice that they care enough to be angered by it.

Wow! I haven't experienced that here. The stares, of course, never blatant aggression. I would flip, seriously.

Here, I find that when I am out with a butch, the straight women tend to flirt with the butch. Idk... sstrange.sounds lime a lot of people encounter aggression and that is NOT right.

I am fiercely protective of my partners. Female animals in the wild are extremely fierce, often moreso than the male because they have that urge to protect their litters and survive in ways the males just fight to mate.

I do not feel being fierce for my partner is "unbutching" her. Not ever. I have lived in some of the roughest are scariest areas in London, so I no longer have any fear about "hurting" someone. I have punched people, in the face, when safety required. My Butch partners always respected me in that they allowed *me* to handle my situation first and they had my back should it get to a point they needed to step in. Sometimes they did, often with a bit of humour and sarcasm and gently disarmed the situation and we exited.

Causing someone danger by speaking ones mind or being physical is not always the best way to protect someone. We ultimately need to protect ourselves and our partners are there for backup. Although I often have wanted to step in, I do a disservice to my partners decision on how to handle themselves - unless I see a car crash happening. Then I will do my best to handle in a disarming way - like my partners have done for me.

My partners are perfectly capable of protecting themselves. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself. We are both fierce and strong. But we have each other's back. It is not her job to protect me. It's mine. It's her job to help me if I need it. I sometimes really do.

And you did protect her already by disarming the situation and taking her arm. You did not escalate it by being provocative with a comment. That's being protective. Properly. No worries. You had her back.

Sorry that happened, Femminator. I think it was wise of your wife not to get in a fight with those morons ... it sounds like you both really handled it well. I tend to lose my temper when provoked in public, so you responded more wisely than I might have. You took the high road. Above them.

I recently up graded my cane,I now have one with a strong light in the handle facing forwards(it's in the grip of the handle) also If I need to I just flip a button behind the light and can stun the bas5a7ds with 50,000 volts of stun gun power.It cost me $80.00 but is worth it.

Things can get ugly
 

I don't think it's unbutching to want to defend her. It is, however, unwise. Life is full of people who will want to cut you down or ridicule you. Like others have said it's either because they have their own personal demons to fight or that they don't like your face.
Who can make sense of it? I know I can't.
However, I think the high road is the better route. Yeah as a femme we'd want to pull out some quick moves and ninja chop a few foos but really, have you trained to fight hand to hand? Even if you have violence is like a cancer, it only spreads negativity.
I look at it this way. Sometimes I really would love to swing a sack of heavy coins at a person, but the feeling of hitting someone? I don't think it would be nice. Besides, those type of people are beneath me.
Best revenge you can have is go home with her and give her extra attention. :)

you know, from my perspective, sometimes I need to be protected from myself cause I could get myself in a whole buncha trouble stepping up to someone. I wouldn't mind if a femme talked me down and away from a situation like that, and handled it on her terms in a different manner. Nothing wrong with a femme protecting me too. I know I"d protect my femme as best I could for sure. Hell I'd take a beating if someone tried to harm my gf/wife, if we couldn't ignore the situation going on or walk away. I'm very innately protective. It's in my blood.

Can't change foolishness
 

It is interesting to look at it from so many different perspectives. I am the type to put my hand on her shoulder and say "lets just go, they're not worth the prison sentence". LOL Though, for the right butch? I'd help her bury the body >.> but that is something else entirely....

I don't see that much here. Actually, I haven't seen it at all. I don't care if someone stares or talks crap. If there was a physical altercation, I would probably join in... I can say, in all honesty, I am not one to sit on the sidelines while anyone I like is getting attacked. :fastdraq:

I tend to have a pretty hair trigger, I do have to say. I can't stand what I perceive to be an injustice...no matter what it is. Is it effective? Not always. Is it disruptive? Sometimes. But it's instinct for me to run my mouth, I guess. My mom couldn't figure out why the bus stopped at our house when I was in the second grade but I never got off. She went over to see what was going on, and I was lecturing high schoolers that were making fun of a boy who loved to wear makeup and jewelry to school. I never got any more control over it. lol I don't know, cruelty and ignorance of any kind make me nuts, but if you hurt my butch I'm just vicious. It's not necessarily a good thing.

I guess it's not so much a matter of femme/butch protectiveness, I mean, I would get defensive in any situation where a loved one is being judged or harassed or whatever.
But of course, witnessing the person we love the most and are in love with for being who they are, being harassed or attacked for those very reasons, is a very difficult thing to handle for anyone I guess.
My partner almost never loses her cool, I don't know how she does it, well, she is way calmer in every aspect of life, while I'm quite hot tempered and when I see strangers looking at her with disgust I can't help but stare back at them. If I'm feeling particularly sassy and/or annoyed I ask them "What, do you want a picture so you can stare some more?". Or I look at them up and down, up and down, until they turn their gaze away, embarassed. I've always been very good at the staring game, too! Haha!
My butch is very diplomatic and unless someone attacks her verbally or physically she just doesn't give the idiots the time of the day.
I wish I had some of her cool, and it drives me nuts how the same people who look at me in an accepting way look at her in a degrading way. She has asked me several times to let it go, and I understand that given her physical, mental and emotional strength she doesn't need me to defend her - hell, she's been through tougher times before we met - but the urge is strong.

Nice thread! My first thought was, "who among us hasn't been there at some point?" But then I realized I live in Texas, and maybe there are places that this is uncommon.

Just days out of the closet, I was having breakfast with a new butch friend at a popular busy diner in Austin which is pretty gay-friendly. As we were eating, I noticed a guy giving us the hate stare. He just stared, looking entirely pissed, twisted around in his seat and away from his food.

I was the person facing him, and I was kinda shocked. I didn't mention it to my friend at the time, because I didn't want to hurt his feelings or alarm him. Nothing bad came of it, but when I got home, I had this kind of freak out, wondering if this was the rest of my life now and wondering if I was strong enough to deal with it.

The next time I saw my friend, I told him about it. He laughed, shrugged it off, said it happened all the time, and that I should have told him about it.

After that, ill-advised or not, we made a kind of game of it. If one of us spotted a hate-starer, we would both turn and stare back and act like we were watching a tv show and basically mock and joke about them until they averted their eyes. That's probably not advisable, but I lost my fear of just the stare. And I began to feel more protective than anything - of any butch, not just that one friend.

I have found butches are usually more skilled at handling hate of that sort that I am (through direct experience), and that its best to learn their particular philosophy on how to handle things and follow their lead.

Not that I'm great at that, because my natural inclination is often to protect, to push back, to stand between, to call out, to physically intervene if necessary. But it's likely the best call in non-threatening cases of bigotry to just show respect and love to the person you are with and make bigots look like jerks all on their own.

I do have a friend who is male-identified, female-assigned-at-birth who was severely beaten a few years ago by some drunk guys, and the only thing that stopped the beating was his femme date's jumping on top of him and covering him with her body. She may have saved his life.

He told his story recently on a podcast. I've known him for over a decade and didn't know he went through this - it's a good podcast though and he goes on to talk about how he himself works to counteract bullies in his own unique way: http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...?download=true

I think there are times when our femininity and willingness to protect/intervene is very helpful, but especially in less threatening situations, it's best not to escalate. Escalation may be more likely to bring harm to the butch than to you.

So true! Thank you for pointing it out!

I am about to speak from a view different angles, so please don't get upset until you read all through this.

The great majority of us have experienced dangerous, and sometimes life threatening harassment over our lifetimes. Do we educate and change these people by laying down and taking it? Do we educate these people by standing up and showing we're ready to meet fire with fire, punch with punch? Do we educate these people by trying to speak calmly to them, to show them the errors of their ways? Or by just sticking to our convictions and living our life?

I believe the answer to my own question is, Yes. We help educate these people by all of the above.
And no. We don't achieve a damn thing by any of the above. In other words, you have to look at each situation and decide if the personal risk imminent is worth the POSSIBLE advancement.

Let's say that you did stand up to these punks and bullies. And if they were an "Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson" type (Matthew Shepard killers), you COULD bring national attention to a well needed situation. But at what cost? I'm sad to say that the Matthew Shepard situation did so much good to change the hearts of many Americans. I'm sad to think about the pain his family and friends experienced. (if you can, watch the documentary The Laramie Project). If this happened to you, your life would have had strong meaning to the world. But again I ask, at what personal cost.

And also, how many of our Brothers and Sisters DID stand up to bullies, showed their personal and physical strength, and died an anonymous and unknown (except to their friends and families) death, and debatably, unnecessary death. For a few years back in the 90's, a group of us from San Fran and L.A. would converge on Fresno for their pride parade to face the KKK. Yes, we would taunt them and send our best interracial lesbian couple to deep throat kiss in front of them. And then decided to stop. Here, WE were the bullies, protected by the police at the parade. But we had no idea what happened 4 blocks over when the KKK took off their robes and hoods, started to walk home angrily and ran into our gay friends. We then decided to continue going, but go with grace.

Ghandi and Martin Luther King were both doing so much Non Violent good for the world. And both assassinated. A different direction was taken by Malcolm X, Anwar Sadat, and such politicians as JFK, RFK, and Harvey Milk, yet all died by the bullet. So many more that I can't even start to list. All did so much good for the world and paid the highest cost. But if Archie Bunker was a real person, do you think all the arguing with him in the world would have changed his heart?

I am well aware that I don't experience the same as most of my butch brothers as I walk this earth, as I still strongly look female and can often 'pass' if I choose. But I do know how I would want my femme to respond if I was the target in this situation. To just ignore and not escalate. Allow me to handle my own situations. I am ready with my next step if my present step isn't working, but I am NOT ready if you step in and change the direction. If I'm being physically attacked and my femme has the physical ability to help, then do so at that point. If my femme has more cultural knowledge of a situation than I do, then do help at that point (and I don't just mean race. I have been in a hardcore biker community. The culture is different. I have had to help stronger people than me stay safe when they stepped wrong).

I'm rambling, as it's morning and I'm out of practice of responding on the threads. But I think what I'm trying to say is that it's a personal decision. Just don't come to the conclusion that there's ONE right answer. Do what is right for BOTH of you.

Protection
 

I too have faced hate and violence from men. During the 70's in Houston gay people were chased down and beat up for sport I think.

In the 70's my girlfriend and I were camping in Galveston when this guy decided he wanted her so he started climbing into our tent to take her. She was a small lady less than 5 feet tall and under 100 lbs. I pushed him out of the tent and "it was on", as he started hitting me I called for my buddy in the next tent to come help me but to my surprise my girlfriend came flying out of the tent and jumped in front of me. She started yelling at him so he backed down and left. I was very grateful that she protected me.

Many times in my life femmes have come to my rescue and I am always grateful for it. I will only fight if I have to in order to protect my loved ones. I always try to defuse a hostel situation before it gets violent. Thanks to all the femmes that protect butches.

Chad, it's awful that you and your friends had to experience this. But Yay to your gf! Yep, I would be very grateful also.

Especially now with all the hate going around, I have taken to carrying Pepper Spray at all times with me. I won't hesitate to use it that is for sure.

Thank you buddy, Femmes rock!

Very true. As a femme, I have never been beaten by asshole cops who didn't like "dykes". They can't ever "be sure" about me. My butch and countless others I know have. It's horrible.

I get looked at all the time by people and I just brush it off, there is no need for anymore violence in this world, so I avoid it and I have never had a femme protect me because I can protect myself.

Just my opinion.

What you say certainly makes sense Virago, but you seem to be coming from the perspective that our reactions are something we decide upon. Sometimes we do consciously decide, and sometimes we just react. I think there's merit in both paths. Of course it's often wiser to think it through, but not every situation is always best approached by measuring and thinking and pondering. Sometimes swift, decisive action works best. I agree with you that reacting rashly can sometimes be counterproductive, but there are times...

I walk in the world with the knowledge that fairness isn't always part of the equation, that sometimes dangerous and destructive things just happen to us, and that many things are simply out of our control. What that means to me is that sometimes I just have to take action and hope that I'll act the way I would like my friends to remember me. I guess I've faced a lot of mortality in my life. I don't stress about it much anymore.

So after reading through the posts here I had many thoughts and have taken some time to try and organize them so they come out in a coherent manner.

I think within our relationships we offer each other protection sometimes physical and others it comes in the form of emotional safety a shelter in the storm.

While I can offer some physical strength I'd not likely be a match for a man with intent to physically attack me or a butch I'm with, of course that's a broad generalization yet those are based in some truth. Certainly, adrenaline would kick in and provide a boast save fear doesn't paralyze me into being rooted in a spot forced to watch the horror unfolding in front of me. I could attempt to use my words to communicate just what I think of such inane behavior and I'd be quite rightful, I'm sure in some minds, to put any person physically or verbally attacking in their place. I'm inclined to believe either such response, in many situations not all, is not likely to ultimately serve us well.

I don't want to be one to spews back hate, anger and ugliness that I know is based in fear. (I'm inclined to believe their hate based behavior is also fear based, our brains are program to react with anxiety to the unknown as it allows us to then heighten attention/awareness so we may learn or assess the situation in some this goes awry usually because of some trauma history and they become dysregulated prone to angry outbursts) I imagine, too, that many butches would not want me verbally stepping in to fight a battle that honestly can never be won with hate or anger. I wonder if, in fact, to do so would actually do the opposite than the intent....to not protect but to wound to send the impress I think the butch as not able to handle it, to the come back (if they were so inclined), or to simply cope.

Perhaps where the "real" protection comes in is in the adoring looks, the hand held, the head upon the shoulder, the deferring to that is evident as you wait ever so slightly (perhaps hesitating only a breathe) for a door to be opened, a chair pulled back; as each of these are signs of acceptance rather than tolerance (and yes there is a clear difference perhaps thoughts for another thread) or seeing and loving/adoring/appreciating/desiring the energy, the presence, the essence that we see in the butch that the world either cannot see or does not understand. Maybe our protection comes in the shelter we provide as we seek shelter in their arms a safe place to come to at the end of a day a place where we no longer need to bring strength against the world that all too often treats femmes like just another female which sadly still seems to be about just the worst thing (no I don't believe it - take the context not just the words) you can be based on the discrimination, vulgarity and devaluing rampant as you read the paper, go about your job, take a glance at your pay check, watch the news or simply walk down the street.

We are at our very cores driven, pulled to each other and into wanting, desiring, appreciating that which the other offers....and I think that may be the protection we each need to face the word together. Maybe, in time, when that protection brings us each strength the rest of the world will change around us when in slow subtle ways we change it by our interactions....as we do in fact change each other's brain by merely interacting with each other....

so....let's let our love be the protection that we each offer....