2020 Presidential Election
It's time.
First concern: Elizabeth Breunig (WaPo Opinion pages) tweeted "everyone saying 'coordinated attack from Bernieland [on Beto]' better be able to put their money where their mouth is" in response to a dude claiming people "view Beto as a threat to Sanders 2020 prospects." I voted for both of them and i am not trying to discuss whether the claims of a coordinated attack are true or whether concerns about Beto's history and connections are valid... i am asking "how do we not do this again?" How do we not fracture in the face of fascism again? If the answer is "the Dems have to not put up a capitalist/cop/warmonger again" what is the plan for when they inevitably do? When they put up Kamala Harris (cop), Eric Holder (cop), Joe Biden (warmonger, sexist). Who is going to be the Jill Stein or the Green Party? Is there a DSA candidate? I will start helping them now AND help Joe Ohnopleaseno Biden |
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I'll let them fight it out as long as they don't cheat. I would vote for Kamala, but not Corey Booker and certainly not Eric Fucking Holder, the man who wanted the right to assassinate US citizens on American soil. If I am healthy enough to campaign, I will campaign for Bernie. I will certainly donate to Bernie. I would also vote for Elizabeth Warren. Biden is better than Obama was, but he's a mainstream Dem. But if he wins the primary, I'd vote for him. If Hillary were to get the nomination this time, I would not vote for her again. I'd just leave it blank.
People who start attacking progressives can kiss my fat white ass. Trump needs to go, but it's on the Dems to field a candidate who is not a corporate pawn. BTW, Corey Booker is. Edited to add: I would also like someone who can kick ass. Sweet little Bernie can. Kamala can. Warren can. I think Biden can. Holder can, but he's a piece of shit. Corey Booker has kissed way more ass than he has ever kicked. |
Bernie was my guy the last Presidential election but i reluctantly voted for Hillary. She lost my vote, and my respect, when she stated Monica Lewinsky wasn't a victim of abuse of power because she was an adult. :|
i waver on who i want to back in 2020 because i think we have so many good options, but i also know the bar is set really, really low. Biden has the experience to hit the ground running and the relationships to help heal some of the destruction currently happening. Warren may make a good President but she is also needed where she is. Others i am watching are Castro, O'Rourke, and Bernie. Oh how i miss Obama. :( |
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I think Hillary is more qualified than any other contenders and, if she runs again, she will most likely get my vote before anyone else ... particularly Biden. The best I have to say about Biden is that he’d be better than the current occupant in the WH.
As usual, I will vote for the Democratic nominee—whomever it is, even if i have to hold my nose while doing it, but my preference is a woman or a person of color. |
Biden has a long track record so we can see a lot of mistakes made in different times, but if he had been the nominee in 2016, Trump would not be President. The thing about Biden to me is even though he did some of the same shit I can't forgive Bill Clinton for, because he is not the complete cynical power monger Bill and even Hillary could be, I can get past it. Biden is a relatively decent person, something no aware person could ever say about Bill Clinton.
For a mainstream Dem, Biden has done right by unions. Bill Clinton made his career out of destroying them. There's a world of difference there. When Bill started seeing that Hillary was losing working people, he basically said to her campaign, you can fool these folks. I have. The only President who has done more harm than Clinton in my lifetime is Reagan. And I include Trump and W. It's true that Biden participated in the harms done in the Clinton era, especially his support for mass incarceration. But I think he is redeemed (barely) by his support for unions and by the fact that he is not, at his core, a cynical asshole. |
The Clintons and unions in Arkansas. From the beginning . . .
https://www.lawcha.org/2016/11/23/bi...-class-whites/ |
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Biden does have appeal for his long history, though. Like, any bombshells there are in his past were found long ago. We would know exactly what we were getting, with him. |
Re Kamala, I would be so happy to have someone who cares about the rule of law after this law breaking motherfucker. I lived in California when she was AG. I loved her.
But my first choice is Bernie. I love him. He changed the world. He made the Dems take economic inequality seriously. Well that and losing to Trump. Dumb ass motherfuckers. Hillary's recent statement about immigration in Europe just showed who she is and always has been. She wants to placate the center right no matter what principle gets sacrificed. That's the Clinton MO. They don't get that it doesn't work anymore. I have never cared about having a woman President. It doesn't mean much to me. I was glad that Obama was elected. I do think it mattered having a person of color in that office. Will it matter when a woman is elected? Some. But it depends on who. I don't like to think of what type of person felt empowered by Margaret Thatcher or is inspired by Teresa May. |
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And here i have to indict myself because part of the appeal of a Bernie campaign, to me, is that he is a white man. He will be painted as a Socialist, and Socialism is scary, and having those proposals delivered by a white man makes them less scary to other white men. That represents a huge opportunity to have a national conversation about very bold ideas, and it is just a fact that such proposals will be taken more seriously coming from a white man. Of course, all that would happen then is that the Republicans will try to pull his white card by dog-whistling Antisemitism. The piece i was looking at when i made the OP was Five Thirty-eight: Who’s Behaving Like A 2020 Presidential Candidate It has a list of people who are "behaving like" they plan to run, with 7 "behaviors" indicated and a score based on who has done them. These are the indicators: VISITED IOWA VISITED N.H. VISITED S.C. BOOK POLL MAGAZINE PROFILE CAMPAIGNED Bernie is the only one who has hit all 7, then Biden with 6, then Booker/Bullock/Castro, etc with 5 I haven't done a deep dive on either Castro, but here in Texas they are seen as Mexican Betos. Bullock seems ok but not exciting. |
I saw Rahm Emanuel on David Axelrod's show last night. I would bet money he's running. He's a fighter, but a mainstream Dem with a questionable record of success. If he runs, you will really see the Republicans dog-whistling anti-Semitism.
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The question in my original post was about a plan B in case the Democrats make a disappointing choice that causes progressives to peel off again.
Rather than screaming at each other about whether we should or should not be supporting the lesser of two evils, like last time, i want to figure out what steps can be taken preemptively so that there is a structure that could support a breakaway movement that would be believably viable to the Democratic base. It was messy last time-- some people supported Stein and some people supported a Bernie write-in and the fracture itself seemed fractured. The plan B was improvised and there was no time to build momentum underneath it by the time we realized we needed one. The DSA has been doing amazing things here in Houston-- they were very visible in Harvey relief and there is considerable goodwill from that. Can they support a Presidential campaign? Do they want to? Their model is very bottom-up. If Sanders is shut out of the nomination and decides to run as an Independent, can the DSA provide infrastructure for that? The word "President" is not mentioned on their Electoral committee page. |
Now that would be an interesting election.
Truly I think any non-Clinton Democrat will beat Trump. Not everyone believes that, but I do. I think the Dems would have to make an egregious choice to mobilize progressives enough for your scenario. But I don't put it past them. I know Hillary is considering a run. Given the progressive victories in the midterm, I just can't imagine the Dems would be stupid enough to consider her. There was a big gasp after she made that comment about European immigrants. I think people know she's part of the past. Biden is the most likely mainstream Dem, and because of his union politics, I think he is marginally palatable to the left. I could be wrong. |
I watched Senator Amy Klobuchar on “The Rachael Maddow show” recently; she is considering a campaign, and figures that the field of likely candidates will be more than 20 to start.
I’m with Martina on how outstanding a President Kamala Harris would make; she is strong and confident and knows the law. She was an excellent AG for California and would be someone I would have faith in to run this country. Hillary Clinton? Fuck Hillary Clinton and the horse she road in on. She was unable to win before because she’s an arrogant white elitist, with no concept of what middle America (or real people) cares about. Bernie? You know, I STILL think Bernie is a great Senator, but I don’t think he is President material. In any case, (and it shows my prejudice) NO MORE OLD WHITE MEN!!! :praying: |
Whoops! I didn’t see the direction you were leading the discussion in...sorry!
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Emmanuel is being roasted on twitter today bc he said Trump was a good politician in the Axelrod interview.
I would have voted for Biden with stars in my eyes the night he did that interview with Colbert where they discussed the loss of his son. |
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What do you think of Bloomberg as the Democratic candidate?
http://www.politico.com/amp/story/20...ocrats-1048159 I can't imagine him getting through the primaries, but if he did, his candidacy might be one that would provoke the "dark_crystal scenario." |
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Oh I did not mean to suggest I thought Bloomberg would be a good candidate.
Chuck Schumer pretty much typifies establishment Dem. I think he might tip the progressives over to third part thinking too. I haven't seen signs that he's running. |
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I think a Bloomberg candidacy would trigger Trump very badly, as Bloomberg has quadruple the wealth Trump claims. I think it would be interesting, in the case of both Bloomberg and Sanders, to see what the GOP does against a Jewish candidate. In the Obama years, we saw a whole bunch of racism come out of the woodwork that we thought had been exorcised in the 60s. With a Jewish dem. nominee, will we find out we had vastly underestimated Holocaust deniers (lol yes)? A lot of holocaust denial and general Antisemitism has already emerged under Trump, think how much more would emerge with Trump running against a Jewish billionaire who actually is everything Trump pretends to be-- and Trump's so-called Christianity is the only place he diverges form Bloomberg. I also looked into Klobuchar. It was not a deep dive (Wikipedia), but she does not seem like she is very far to the left of Clinton. I think running her would be like running Clinton minus the baggage. Maybe that will turn out to be what people want. One thing i learned about myself over the past 3-4 years is that i do not vote as a progressive or as a centrist, i exclusively vote as A Gay. My choice is always the choice that makes us the safest. This is why i didn't "peel off" last time, despite having rejected every Clinton in every primary they were ever in. It's why i am so worried about a peel-off movement in 2020. Peel-off movements endanger minorities. As long as you have one huge party that pays lip service to minorities and one huge party that welcomes people who want queers executed, there is going to be a natural ceiling on how far an insurgency from the left can go. We are not going to see a viable third party on the left until minorities feel they can abandon the democratic party without risking their lives. |
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He's fits that bill, but then again so does Schiff. No signs of him running either, but he has made it a point to stay in the public eye. If Bernie runs in any party, Schumer wouldn't run against his buddy anyway. Biden is the Dems ticket to win. There were a lot of folks that wished the Amendment against 3rd termers didn't exist. Not saying I would want to vote Dem again. Last election got burned or should say blindsided. |
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The right is poised for a big leap at the country. Anyone hear something about a left wing insurgency? Maybe we can get the Fourth International possibility resurrected again (wishful thinking on my part). |
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CNN is talking about Julian Castro. In passing, one woman said there were going to be 31 Democrats running. Wow.
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Alexander Bolton, The Hill: Trump shock leaves Republicans anxious over 2019
Republican lawmakers are struggling to coordinate their message with President Trump heading into a divided Congress after he pulled the rug out from them once again by declaring he would be “proud” to shut down the government. How certain do we feel that Trump will be at the top of the 2020 Ticket? What if it's Pence? Sanders Vs Pence, Biden Vs Pence, Harris vs Pence, Beto vs Pence, Castro vs Pence I feel like any one of them could make his head explode. |
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Dear God... I hope not! :blink: For the sake of the party and the country... she needs to ride off into the sunset and be done with elected office.
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We always shred ourselves and each other looking for the perfect, pure candidate. We do such a good job that the conservatives don't have to do much to scoop up a win. They just show up looking coherent and well dressed while our people are still staggering up, trying to wipe up the mud we've slung at each other, and then our opportunity is gone. 'Perfect' is the enemy of 'good'. That said, I have my doubts about the below candidates we've been discussing.
Michael Bloomberg, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, and almost but not quite Cory Booker. All of the above have one thing in common. They're from NYC, just like Trump. In Booker's case he's from one state away, (NJ), where a huge number of citizens commute to their NYC jobs. I'm a native New Yorker, and I think it's a bad idea for the Dems to nominate a New Yorker for Pres on this round. I think everyone is about done with it, but I may be misreading the US electorate. I also think that there are some things that work regionally that WILL NOT PLAY in Peoria. Like Bloomberg's nasal whine. Yes, I think the US is so rife with anti-semitism now that a wealthy Jewish candidate would be an impossible sell. I wish I were wrong, but I doubt it. Bloomberg, Schumer and Sanders all have Jewish heritage. *Bloomberg became a Republican to run for Mayor of NYC and was responsible for the incredibly racist, damaging, and unconstitutional stop-and-frisk policy that ended up terrorizing our young black men city-wide. He has so many other vulnerabilities as a candidate that I'm having trouble believing anyone would take him seriously. Is anyone prepared to support an extraordinarily wealthy candidate who proposed a law, (in a whiny voice), outlawing large sized soft drinks as a way to combat obesity, for instance? Not to mention that the credibility of the Democratic Party would evaporate with people of color because of Bloomberg's legacy in racist mass incarceration. *Chuck Schumer is the very definition of slippery political insider. No, no, and HELL NO. He functions well where he is, and would be lost on the campaign trail. And he's boring. He knows how to wring concessions and get his agenda passed in the legislature. Period. Don't enact the Peter Principle. *Bernie Sanders is too old for this job! Are you effing kidding me? PS-so are Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton. I don't care how charming Sanders and Biden are now, or how supremely overqualified, (except for that pesky vagina of her's), Clinton is. They would be in their eighties for the second term. That ship has sailed. Cory Booker is a native of NJ, and I could support him, I think. See above- 'perfect' vs 'good'. I admire him for a great many things and disagree with him on a few. He seems to have what it takes except for experience, but at this point I'm not nearly as hung up on that as I once was. I still think it's time for someone who isn't from the New York area. Someone with manners, please. Trump was our embarrassing village idiot since his coke and disco days. I'm so embarrassed and sickened by his antics every day. Many Americans share my feelings on that subject. Because of that, I think anything that looks like 'New Yorkness' will be an even less attractive trait by 2020. That said, I'm voting for the 2020 Democratic nominee no matter who it is. |
Elizabeth Breunig, Opinion, Washington Post: My advice to progressives: Don’t back down
So much of centrist-Democrat fantasizing about 2020 already seems aimed at repeating a golden past. Consider the groundswell of interest in Beto O’Rourke, the Texas congressman who narrowly lost his recent Senate race against Sen. Ted Cruz. For Democrats excited about O’Rourke, his primary draw is his similarity to Barack Obama — both in form and content. O’Rourke has held conversations with the former president about a possible run, to build on a belief that O’Rourke, as my colleague Matt Viser described it, is “capable of the same kind of inspirational campaign that caught fire in the 2008 presidential election.”I just don't see Beto beating Trump, and i don't see him having much of an economic platform at all. My mind keeps seeing him skateboarding and that is who he is to me. And i say this as someone who was bombarded by all things Beto all summer |
Rolling Stone magazine's list of potential Democratic candidates
Nothing on Earth could compel me to vote for Booker or Kerry. There may be some worse candidates on the list, but I don't know them all. I would campaign for a third party candidate if either Booker or Kerry got the nomination. |
on my mind, lately...
Something that I think is worthwhile to think about is the type of candidate, preferably a candidate who can combine a powerhouse of solid members who will commit to steering the US toward better social policy and committed to restructuring the economy by shoring up Labor policy because the economy is tanking under a variety of pressures created and exacerbated by the current administration.
Also, worth thinking about: How will any candidate seeking office deal with the fall-out over immigration policy and the treatment of those who seek a better life in the US due to horrific and life threatening situations in progress? And, last but not least, another thing I've been thinking about: There's an awful lot of global upheaval and unrest due to turbulent changes in other global societies, as well as social upheaval and unrest in our own country. I don't know what type of things to question appropriately, given the type of political and social climate of today, but I feel compelled to think about these types of things due to political and social unrest. My eldest brother is an long-time federal employee with the USFS. He has to file for unemployment, since this federal agency is part of the greater federal agencies under attack by the current administration. I often wonder if you-know-who has been silently, with help by crooked, heartless members in the current administration, undermining agencies established by the Rooseveltian social policy of the Post-Depression era. I keep thinking that it is super important that we as a country need to shore up and protect social agency's affected by the upheaval committed against them by the current administration (….). I'm also worried about Supreme Court Justice, RBG and the Supreme Court Justice system as a whole. How can we as a country have an independent arm of the Justice system if the SCJ bench is representative of repressive forms of 'justice'??? I am still upset over the placement of Kava-Not to the US Supreme Court. The proverbial clock is ticking and two years from now, will be here soon. |
NBC News: Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke, By Jonathan Allen and Alex Seitz-Wald
WASHINGTON — Forces loyal to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders are waging an increasingly public war against Texas Rep. Beto O'Rourke, the new darling of Democratic activists, as the two men weigh whether to seek the party's presidential nomination in 2020. NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE My fear of this type of thing right here is where i started this thread. Sanders has my primary vote this time same as last time, but we do not need to attack the cuddly skater boy. Beto already has all the rope he is going to need to hang himself, in his voluntary association with the establishment wing of the party, and Sanders supporters have a bad reputation. I personally believe that bad reputation is an artifact of Russian interference, but i think the best thing for the candidate would be if everyone takes the extreme high road until after Iowa at least. Newsweek: BIDEN DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR MILLENNIALS COMPLAIN: 'GIVE ME A BREAK,' BY SUMMER MEZA Millennials who think that times are tough in 2018 have no room to complain, according to former Vice President Joe Biden, who said that he had “no empathy” for young people who compared today to the struggles of the 1960s.NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. That is the oldest tiredest baby boomer shit i have ever heard and i have now changed my mind about Uncle Joe and i don't care how sweet he was on Colbert. |
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Today's struggles don't even hold a match, let alone a candle, to what was happening during that period. It was not the romantic time of purple haze and flower children that some remember, the times were really tough. |
Bravo Cathexis!
I am so tired of people thinking that they are fighting a battle from Square One and ignoring the blood, courage, determination, and , frankly, remarkably intelligent genius that came before. Bring on your inspiring leaders, those who can lead us into the future with great ideas. Till then admire with great gratitude those who could do that and did. |
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Minorities like us faced brutality, but Joe Biden's share of that struggle was selected from a place of privilege. Our blood is not his to claim. The economic struggles that millennials face now, that they did not select, are likewise not his to dismiss. And even if ya'll are correct, and Millennials aren't deserving of empathy, what kind of candidate says that out loud? Take it from an X-er, 60s nostalgia has a very limited appeal. Boomers like Joe Biden could pay for college off a summer job sacking groceries-- they didn't have to take on a lifetime of debt to attend college, and they didn't face bankruptcy over medical bills. They didn't need gofundme to get chemo. Boomers were able to retire. Millenials won't have that. In the 1960s a high school graduate could own a home and support a family of four all by themselves. Now there is no city where the minimum wage will cover an apartment. Their moms stayed home. Their parents stayed married. Our incarceration rate has tripled. Our war now is even stupider than Vietnam, it's just less culturally painful because not so many white kids are going-- and i say this as someone who is watching her father die of Agent Orange exposure. The draft saved as many lives as it destroyed-- the draft was what drove the protests that made the war unpopular. Our current wars can continue indefinitely precisely because the kids of the privileged aren't at risk. If life was so much harder in the 1960s, why is there a 30% increase in suicide since 2000-- largely among boomers? |
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