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atomiczombie 01-12-2012 04:37 PM

A question for the Femmes
 
Hi ladies,

I need some advice. I hope this is ok to ask.

I have recently been contemplating dating again. My therapist and some friends and family have all encouraged me to do so. For a long while I was unwilling to even think about it because I have a panic disorder and PTSD for which I am on disability and frankly what I get from my SSI checks every month is paltry. I haven't felt that I am emotionally stable enough to date because of my panic attacks, and not good date/relationship material because I can't work and am basically poor.

That said, I do have a lot going for me in other ways. I am a very kind, compassionate guy. I am have a big heart. I am well mannered, charming, sweet, and I love to goof around. I love to read and learn new things every day. I work on my issues and deal with them honestly. Even though I don't have a lot of money for expensive dates, I do lavish my dates with attention and care. Many people in my life tell me to go out and date again.

That all being said, I recently took a big risk and asked a Femme friend of mine for a date. She rejected me, and the reasons basically have to do with my lack of emotional stability and the fact that I am not financially secure and stable. Man, does that take the wind out of my sails!

So my question is this: Should I even try? Is my PTSD and panic disorder, and my being on disability something that makes me a potentially bad date/partner? Some help and advice would be nice before I decide to really put myself out there again.


Thanks ladies! :)


Drew

JustJo 01-12-2012 04:45 PM

Hi Drew,

Kudos to you for being courageous enough to put this out here. :rrose:

So...first....any femme who is rejecting you out of hand over your lack of financial security isn't worth having. Sorry, but that's how I see it. You're a person, not a checkbook or a 401K.

Second, sure...you have issues. Which of us doesn't? The main question, for me, is are you working on it? Or are you wallowing in it? Seems to me like you're working on it...and that deserves respect and consideration.

The date issue...kind of like the checkbook thing...dates are about getting to know the other person, having some fun together, spending some time. An expensive dinner or concert doesn't make it a good date...the connection made does. Any femme worth her salt should be seeing you for you...and not weighing out what you can give her.

Lots of fun things can be done on little or no money....popcorn and a movie at home....picnic in the park....free day at a museum...coffee and talking at a local diner... going for a walk in a pretty part of town...

I say don't give up....just look for a femme with a little more depth and character. I wish you all the best.

The_Lady_Snow 01-12-2012 05:01 PM

Thoughts
 
It's up to you to put yourself out there, nothing we can say is going to guarantee you a hassle free dating experience.. That's the whole point of dating, you go out, get together, hang out to get to know one another, and if there are differences (such as the monetary one) then you *know* that it isn't gonna pan out for a long term relationship, and that's OK cause you're only dating and seeing who could be a good match.

It's not the Femme's fault or yours for her being honest about things maybe she likes to travel and can only afford herself and not both so therefore she figures this is not going to be a long term for her.

I say keep dating, don't place any expectations on dates other than, maybe you will have a second one if things go well.... Sometimes it may take 10 dates it all depends how quick people get into the nitty gritty of the I want's and must have lists..

Anyways, good luck to ya, dating is a fucking blast!

macele 01-12-2012 05:04 PM

justjo gives great advice.

i'm not femme but i'd like to share this ... bottom line ...
we only need money for health and daily living expenses ...
the rest is a luxury ...
the rest is love.

you are special. you deserve. keep going forward.

The_Lady_Snow 01-12-2012 05:07 PM

Why not
 
Ask the butches and guys too? I mean you can't be the only single guy/butch on BFP with this issue, there has to be butches/guys who don't bring in a lot of dough or who have a fixed in come.. I would of asked my bro's how they handle it or handled it when they were/ are dating...

Anyways, it's something we all go through. dating that is..

Gráinne 01-12-2012 05:10 PM

First, I agree that judging someone on their money or lack thereof is a poor excuse to turn down a date. There are so many free things to do, that's no excuse.

Not to defend this woman's actions, but perhaps she was afraid of what would happen if you had an attack with her? Are you on treatment to prevent them? I could see her point, that it would be like dating someone with uncontrolled seizures, and she did not want to attempt that. Emotional volatility can put some off. And you say she's a friend, maybe that was just saying "I don't want to date a friend". I wouldn't come right out and condemn her, even if her turn-down was ham handed.

All that said, keep putting yourself out there and you'll have dates where those issues don't matter.

The_Lady_Snow 01-12-2012 05:13 PM

Hmmm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by macele (Post 503173)
justjo gives great advice.

i'm not femme but i'd like to share this ... bottom line ...
we only need money for health and daily living expenses ...
the rest is a luxury ...
the rest is love.

you are special. you deserve. keep going forward.

I'm gonna be the buzz kill here cause I have to be honest, it's ok to want to have money for other things, like traveling, events, eating out, dancing, a long drive for the weekend. It's ok for ANYONE to say hey, this isn't gonna work because we lead different lives, so no not for all people is money for just living, health for some it's about fun, trips, and dates...

This thread reminds me of your other thread drew

"Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?"


Which the whole premise about dating a Femme properly takes money...

atomiczombie 01-12-2012 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 503178)
I'm gonna be the buzz kill here cause I have to be honest, it's ok to want to have money for other things, like traveling, events, eating out, dancing, a long drive for the weekend. It's ok for ANYONE to say hey, this isn't gonna work because we lead different lives, so no not for all people is money for just living, health for some it's about fun, trips, and dates...

This thread reminds me of your other thread drew

"Femmes: How do you like to be treated on a date?"


Which the whole premise about dating a Femme properly takes money...

Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

The_Lady_Snow 01-12-2012 05:21 PM

Dating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 503179)
Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.



I wasn't talking about *dating* them I was more opening up the convo for their experiences too since we ALL date regardless of how we identify or our monetary situation. (f)

Anyways, good luck with the dating, I think the more you put yourself out there and the more you date the bigger the chance you will find the right one for you..

Sometimes it takes kissing a lot of froggies before you find your :blueheels:

Good Luck!!

Thamca74 01-12-2012 05:31 PM

FYI
 
FYI- It is true that money does matter. We can all say that it doesn't but in this country money= security. With that said- some of the very best and most memorable dates I have had did not cost any money. Dates to the lake for a picnic (maybe corny sounding) but very romantic.
I think that if you give it some time and patience the right woman will come along that can see past the anxiety and see you for the great person you are and what you have to offer. Just relax and let it happen. One thing I often have to remind myself. Is that if someone you think you want doesn't work out- It means it wasn't meant to be and there is someone BETTER meant for you.. I struggle with that some times. I want everything to be in my time.. Thats just not how it works ... Hope this helps. Just my take on things. Good luck!!

Semantics 01-12-2012 05:34 PM

I was typing out a reply similar to Jo's so I'll second hers but I want to add something: I wouldn't place someone who receives SSI in the same category as someone who is unemployed due to lack of motivation in life. I also wouldn't judge someone with a mental health diagnosis any more than I would someone with a physical disability.

You're honest about the difficulties you face in life, which is admirable because not everyone is. Some people value that much higher than how much money someone makes or how comfortable they feel in a crowd.

I'm sure it was difficult to finally take the risk and have the first person you asked out reinforce all of your own insecurities about yourself (and I hope you two are still friends, because I can respect her honesty, as well), but I think if it's something you want you should keep trying.

Good luck on your adventures!

kittygrrl 01-12-2012 05:36 PM

I agree with the Lady Snow, it usually does take some money to date properly..but I will say that money isn't everything..maybe in the beginning it may be of some importance but in the end it means very little if what you have together is beautiful...the only thing i have to say about money (in a relationship) is you don't have to have tons but if you move in together at least one of you has to be good at managing whatever you make between the two of you..and for that matter just because you don't make gobs of money doesn't mean you don't manage what you do have..if you do then i think this is not a real issue..

If your therapist is telling you, you are ready and you are feeling positive enough to try; put yourself out there and fly..i think you will be surprised how good that will feel..even though no doubt you'll have some issues here & there..its worth it..

atomiczombie 01-12-2012 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thamca74 (Post 503183)
FYI- It is true that money does matter. We can all say that it doesn't but in this country money= security. With that said- some of the very best and most memorable dates I have had did not cost any money. Dates to the lake for a picnic (maybe corny sounding) but very romantic.
I think that if you give it some time and patience the right woman will come along that can see past the anxiety and see you for the great person you are and what you have to offer. Just relax and let it happen. One thing I often have to remind myself. Is that if someone you think you want doesn't work out- It means it wasn't meant to be and there is someone BETTER meant for you.. I struggle with that some times. I want everything to be in my time.. Thats just not how it works ... Hope this helps. Just my take on things. Good luck!!

You know, my short term financial stability isn't great, in that I don't have a decent income. I am quite poor. However, some day when my parents and my dad's sister (my aunt) pass, I will inherit a sum of money with which I will be able to buy a house outright and live comfortably for the rest of my life. So I do, in a sense, have a retirement plan, as much as I don't want to think of it, because I love my folks and my aunt very much and don't want to lose them.

Passionaria 01-12-2012 05:47 PM

honor what you feel inside~
 
Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

Rather than making official dates, maybe a gentler approach could be establishing close intimate friendships with femmes that you want to know better, and let it unfold naturally. Go dutch and have fun and get your social feet planted again. That's where it all starts anyway. Baby steps?

From what I have seen (and forgive me here) there are a lot of people "out there" who probably shouldn't be dating for one emotional reason or another. The fact that you are capable of honest introspection and questioning says a lot in your favor, to me.

hugz~

princessbelle 01-12-2012 05:54 PM

Lots of good advice and i'll add my humble 2 cents.

I say, as well as others here, go for it. Having money or not having money is not of consequence to a lot people. To some it is.

My only advice would be.....be upfront about it. Not like the first date exactly, but early on IF there are feelings that can be groomed. It does sound like you are doing that, just wanted to make sure.

I'm with the ones that say money does matter, but only if you are led to believe one thing and then find out it's a whole other ballgame once you get going. I, personally would not stay in a relationship where i was the only one working and paying for everything. Or where we both had an income and still i was the only one paying for everything. I just wouldn't. Everyone has their own opinion, I'm just being honest. But, again, sounds like you do have some income so it's probably not the case.

As was said in another thread along these lines, if something happens to my partner WHILE we are together, that's different. Hopefully, we would have a second plan and some savings. I wouldn't leave them, i'm not that much of a hard ass.

Like Snowy said, some people like to travel and do things that cost some small change. It could be as simple as different ways of life. But, if you are open at the beginning about money AND about your emotional status...it will save heartache down the road for everyone involved.

Honesty is always the best policy....

You will find her.

Good luck to you.

atomiczombie 01-12-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passionaria (Post 503199)
Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?

Rather than making official dates, maybe a gentler approach could be establishing close intimate friendships with femmes that you want to know better, and let it unfold naturally. Go dutch and have fun and get your social feet planted again. That's where it all starts anyway. Baby steps?

From what I have seen (and forgive me here) there are a lot of people "out there" who probably shouldn't be dating for one emotional reason or another. The fact that you are capable of honest introspection and questioning says a lot in your favor, to me.

hugz~

Thank you. I just want to date and meet people. I have just not been sure if I am someone that Femmes would find datable given my issues, hence this thread. Thanks for the encouragement! :)

*Anya* 01-12-2012 06:09 PM

As Jo previously stated, a lot, for me; has to do with insight. Does the person I am dating know that they have issues and are they actively doing self-examination and "doing the work" to get a handle on it? Are they basic issues that many of us deal with? Are they stable on medication? Is it a major mental illness?

A few months ago, a butch on a dating site sent me an email and shared with me her history of Bipolar disorder, personality disorder and multiple psychiatric hospitalizations. I appreciated the honesty but for me, that situation was way more than I felt that I wanted to deal with. I needed to nicely state that I did not think I would be able to give her what she needed.

For a first date, I would not want to know all about someone's emotional and financial situation. At that stage, you are looking to see if you have things in common, can communicate and have chemistry. Full disclosure comes once you know that those things in place.

On a first date, fun and conversation is the primary objective. It does not cost a lot of money to have fun!

She may ask you what you do for a living. It is ok to simply state on that first date, "I am a carpenter by trade but am currently not working". If she asks for additional information, you can answer honestly to your comfort level but don't bombard her with every last detail. You can always be direct: "Is that a problem for you?". It is better to know for sure, than to need to guess.

I was scared to death when I first started dating again but it was the best thing I had done for myself in years. I also was rejected once when I first started dating and had made the first move. Luckily, I did not let it deter me and I gamely plugged along and am very happy now.

Best of luck:)

EnderD_503 01-12-2012 06:16 PM

Not femme either, but I do think it depends on the circles you move in as far as the money thing. If you move in queer circles that are largely made up of people who make a certain kind of living, it's quite likely that they'll expect to date someone who also makes a similar amount as they do.

If you're around working class people, people who are below the poverty line etc. "dating" and relationships are going to look very different. Not every femme is going to expect you or want you to be what middle and upper class people call "financially stable." Some will, some won't.

I think emotional stability is more important than financial stability. But it sounds like you're working on that aspect of your life, and those close to you are noticing by encouraging you to start dating again. So I would see that as a positive sign in itself and go for it, if you feel up to it. Don't be discouraged if someone has different monetary values than you do. Just look elsewhere. Not everyone sees the world the same way, or dating/relationships/fuckbuddying the same way.

DapperButch 01-12-2012 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thamca74 (Post 503183)
FYI- It is true that money does matter. We can all say that it doesn't but in this country money= security.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 503192)
You know, my short term financial stability isn't great, in that I don't have a decent income. I am quite poor. However, some day when my parents and my dad's sister (my aunt) pass, I will inherit a sum of money with which I will be able to buy a house outright and live comfortably for the rest of my life. So I do, in a sense, have a retirement plan, as much as I don't want to think of it, because I love my folks and my aunt very much and don't want to lose them.

You know what is funny, Drew? When I read the first line of Thamca's post my thought was....well, Drew's income is A LOT more secure than my own! I could get fired or laid off. My subsequent unemployment could run out and I could have no income.

Your income is MORE SECURE than mine b/c you know for sure that you will keep getting yours. I don't even know if social security is going to be around by the time I retire. People that are already receiving social security (or social security disability), will most likely not lose it or face a reduction.

So a lack of financial security? I think not!

Keep on keepin' on my friend. It is not what you make, but how you manage what you do make. :)

ETA: When it comes to your mental health, you know if you are ready better than anyone else. I would much prefer to be with a partner who is aware of their mental health issues and managing them, than a partner who may have less severe mental health issues but has no awareness and does not take accountability for them. Good luck.

sanee66 01-12-2012 08:38 PM

my thoughts
 
HI there,
Well, being femme and having been in a similiar situation before with a partner who did not make a lot of money (self employed and worked when she wanted to, also subject to panic attacks) I thought I would give my two cents.
This relationship worked really well cause we complimented each other in areas where the other was weak. I worked full time, she took care of the house, yard and kid, basically a stay at home dad.

I dont need much to make me happy, someone that listens, and understands and knows when I need space and when i need held. To me this is more important that what one might be able to buy. Had a gf once that was forever buying me jewelry, which I never wore before. The best times I have ever had going out was just sitting by a lake, walking through the woods, country cruisin and nibblin finger foods. Some of the best gifts I haved gotten were just little notes that were hidden where I would find them.

If there are issues that need working on, it definitely sounds like you are doing so and I applaud you for that. I know many people that will never take that step and I think they may suffer for it.

Now for the long term pic. Since I am one of the many people only two checks away from being homeless, the only thing that matters to me in monetary terms is that who ever I may be with contribute what they can without blowing everything they make on just the things they want and expecting me to pay for everything. If issues arise, I would want to talk it out and try to find a solution with my partner.

I think you were great in taking that first step and I hope you don't let this make you run and never try again. You sound very nice and I wish you all the best.

Queerasfck 01-12-2012 08:53 PM

Yeah Drew, who cares about one rejection? I had to stop counting mine when I was single. Fuck that. Move on and go find what you really want.

SuddenlyWestFemme 01-12-2012 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passionaria (Post 503199)
Hey Drew,
What comes to my mind reading your post is do "you" feel ready? In your heart are you feeling strong enough to surf the waves of dating? Weather it goes well or leads to more, can you feel OK inside yourself at this time with what ever happens?


I think this is great advice. And something to reevaluate after a date or two as well. I have been single for over a year and during that time I stepped into the dating pool twice thinking I was ready. Low and behold after a couple of dates, I realized I was so NOT ready. But I wouldn't have known that I wasn't ready if I hadn't stepped into dating. So go for it and then evaluate how you are feeling around the whole thing.

And please don't worry too much about how Femmes will perceive you or what we will want from you - we all want different things. Some want financial security in a partner others want someone who can make them laugh regardless of income. Some are drawn to those who have emotionally hard times and some want to date those who have been through their ups and downs but are at a pretty even place. There is just no way to tell until you start dating. There was a time when financial security in a partner was important to me. I didn't have faith that I could be the primary breadwinner and I didn't want to raise my kids poor since that is how I grew up. But now I am the main breadwinner for me and my kids so that is less important. I know that I can do it on my own and I can't travel much anyway as I have kids in school so it is just less important. I am the same person, but my desires have changed. Make sense?

Go out and have fun if you are ready and can handle the rejection that inevitable comes along with dating (that is truly the hardest thing not to take personally, but it is rarely personal!). And remember that a few rejections doesn't mean that is all there is out there (another hard thing to do!).

Kind regards,
SuddenlyWest

CherylNYC 01-12-2012 09:28 PM

I have to chime in because I detect a whiff of sexism here. Would a femme woman ask whether she should simply not date at all because she's living on disability and can't afford to take her dates out or buy nice things for them? I think not. I wish there wasn't a presumption that the male/masculine partner is supposed to foot the dating bill. I honestly thought we laid that to rest in the 1970s! Silly me.

I work and make enough money to support myself. If I met someone I liked I wouldn't be particularly concerned if their income was far smaller than mine, as long as they were living within their means and they were not a deadbeat who simply refused to work. Yes, disability income is usually quite low, but many people live on SSI. I wouldn't rule them out of my dating pool because the pool is already very, VERY small! And as Dapper pointed out, SSI is a steady, reliable income.

As for PTSD, many of us live with this disorder. I would rule out an active drug addict or alcoholic. I would rule out an abusive person, or a mean one. PTSD wouldn't keep me away as long as it's managed. That said, one of my criteria for dating is that my potential dates should be less crazy than me. My late gf didn't exactly fit that criteria, so I obviously didn't take my rule very seriously. The way Caren was able to live honourably with the affects of her traumatic history made me respect her more every day. Her grace and forgiving nature were gifts that continue to inspire me.

Of course most of us who are dating have some idealised perfect person that we fantasize about. Well, that person just doesn't exist. We all have quirky/disfunctional/difficult traits. We all have outright character flaws. We all have histories that make us who we are. Just keep looking and you'll find women who will be happy to know you exactly as you are.

uniquetobeme 01-12-2012 10:02 PM

Dating
 
Making friends is a good way to ease back into dating and you may meet some neat people. It takes a lot of the pressure off. Believe in yourself and take things a day at a time. I believe everything happens for a reason and you'll meet that someone special when the time is right. In my experience, the best loves of my life have come out of the blue in the most unexpected ways. I think, sometimes, life gives us what we need when we need it.
Don't give up, somewhere there is a lovely lady waiting for someone just like you, and you won't find her if you give up.

:moonstars:

starryeyes 01-13-2012 12:47 AM

There is someone out there for everyone. She just wasn't your "one". You said you just started putting yourself out there, be patient. It takes time, and just cause you strike out the first time doesn't mean you are doomed forever.

As far as the monetary situation goes, money is important to some and not to others. It bothered her, so she isn't for you. Financial stability is very important to some, not so much for others. I don't think anyone should knock her for that.

When I am dating, I look for partners who are in similar financial situations as me, who have stability and who can support the lifestyle we want to live together. There is nothing wrong with that. It would be hard for me to date someone unemployed, as I am an extremely hard worker and look to date butches who have the same ethic. It is just what I want :-)

Smiles and good luck to you... hugs. You will find your one, I promise!

Scuba 01-13-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniquetobeme (Post 503381)
Making friends is a good way to ease back into dating and you may meet some neat people.
:moonstars:

I totally agree with you Uniquetobeme. Sometimes I think we as humans, regardless of gender or sexual preference, forget what it means to actually get to know someone. Dating is great and a lot of fun but whatever happened to getting to know someone BEFORE you ask them out on a date.

My philosophy on all of this is simple. Initial physical attraction can be a really strong force in motivating us to ask a person out on a date (it makes us do crazy, silly things as well). However, it clouds our judgment. If things don't work out for this reason or that we are disappointed. Get to know someone as a friend first. Remove those dating expectations from the equation e.g who pays for what and how much and are you crazy or sane. You'll find out all of this information in a friendship as well AND forgo the dating disappointment. Ask for a date only AFTER you have seen them at their worst and their best.

Bottom line for me...If you a are unable to see me first as a human being and a potential friend then dating is out of the question. AND this has NOTHING to do with how much money you make or what issues you think plague you. It has EVERYTHING to do with integrity, honesty and love.

Keep putting yourself out there. Create those strong friendships and see where things lead from there. When you are strong and confident in your own life, money be damned and issues be damned, than that special someone will see this in you.

Call me old fashion and crazy...Scoobs :)

PS...Don't see a "no" as rejection. This means you are personalizing someone else's decisions in life. A "no" has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the person who says no.

kannon 01-13-2012 10:37 AM

Drew, I wanted to discuss a couple of points with you. First, PTSD is a treatable disorder. I'm not sure about your unique circumstances but many people do overcome the debilitating effects of PTSD.

Certainly, there is an appeal about someone who makes a decent living. Nothing wrong with a woman who values security. However, I don't think most femmes focus on a butch's or masculine ID'd income. I've found that what women want, or is drawn to in a partner, really depends on what they value. It's different for each woman. For some, it may be monetary, or it could be, chemistry, personality, intelligence, physical characteristics, etc or any combination.

Finally, if you decide to date, make sure it's your decision to do so and not the result of prodding from someone else.

No one likes to be rejected but it happens. Try not to take it personally.

Good luck.

LaneyDoll 01-13-2012 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 503179)
Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

Last year, I "dated" a girl who showered me with things. Flowers, dinners, movies and even surprised me with a cruise. She was generous but everything came with a price tag in the form of "well, I bought you such & such." The breaking point happened when she OPENLY expressed her anger b/c a guy friend of mine was messing with me. Her jealousy cost her what we had and if it had not, the guilt trips about her spending would have.

I am now committed to a college student who works part time while going to school. The time we share is restricted to what we can afford; sometimes he will pay & sometimes I will. If we do not have money to spend, we stay home and we do so happily. Thank God he likes my cooking-lol.

I am an ultra femme in every sense of the term. But, to win me over, you may as well set aside the credit cards. Treat me like a lady-carry my things to the car so I do not have to; make sure the trash is taken out; help me with my coat and shoes. The best things anyone can do for me are pampering me-foot massages, brushing my hair, touching me sweetly "just because."

Clean house for me-I would love that. Watch the kids so I can crash early if I have a headache. Make my life easier and you have done more for me than any expensive trinket can.


:sparklyheart:

christie 01-13-2012 12:16 PM

Drew -

I think other posts preceeding mine offer some really sound advice and perspectives...

IMO, money, or lack of, is just not an acceptable reason to think you are unworthy. Like many others, I don't expect to have everything provided for me - quite the opposite, actually. I am rather insistent that I pay my own way, and when I am so inclined, I will pay for dinner, tickets, drinks, trips... whatever it is.

I've never had the expectation that the butch pays. WTF is that? Its lovely to be "treated" once in a while, but as Laney mentioned, it really is the little things and EFFORT that mean so much more than what can be purchased.

For the PTSD? I don't believe this makes you "un-dateable" - its actually refreshing to hear of one disclosing such a vulnerability. I'd much rather have one be aware of their issues and be honest about such than to find out much later. The way I see it, you are ahead of the curve!!

Hang in there. Scoobs is correct in taking away the dating expectations and getting to know someone as friends first. Sage advice!

Gemme 01-13-2012 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 503162)
Hi ladies,

I need some advice. I hope this is ok to ask.

I have recently been contemplating dating again. My therapist and some friends and family have all encouraged me to do so. For a long while I was unwilling to even think about it because I have a panic disorder and PTSD for which I am on disability and frankly what I get from my SSI checks every month is paltry. I haven't felt that I am emotionally stable enough to date because of my panic attacks, and not good date/relationship material because I can't work and am basically poor.

That said, I do have a lot going for me in other ways. I am a very kind, compassionate guy. I am have a big heart. I am well mannered, charming, sweet, and I love to goof around. I love to read and learn new things every day. I work on my issues and deal with them honestly. Even though I don't have a lot of money for expensive dates, I do lavish my dates with attention and care. Many people in my life tell me to go out and date again.

That all being said, I recently took a big risk and asked a Femme friend of mine for a date. She rejected me, and the reasons basically have to do with my lack of emotional stability and the fact that I am not financially secure and stable. Man, does that take the wind out of my sails!

So my question is this: Should I even try? Is my PTSD and panic disorder, and my being on disability something that makes me a potentially bad date/partner? Some help and advice would be nice before I decide to really put myself out there again.


Thanks ladies! :)


Drew

Congratulations on taking that first step, Drew!

I have to concur with those who suggest making sure that YOU are ready to move back into the world of dating. It's a crazy world and one that seems to be like a game of double dutch, that seems to fly by and where you have to try to find the perfect moment to slip in.

I also have to piggyback onto what Scoobs said that her 'no' had absolutely nothing to do with you. For whatever reason, whether it's what she told you or not, she didn't feel fully comfortable but that's a reflection of her and not you.

No biggie.

As many have said, we all have our issues. The thing we need to concentrate on is not how others are managing their issues, but how we manage our own.

Personally, I'd be open to meeting a partner that had bushfuls of money. Why? Because I like it and because money does equal security for me, but that goes back to my childhood and being hungry and homeless with my mom. Again, MY stuff. Not yours or anyone else's. Does that mean that I only look for the thickness of a guy's wallet? No. Because a guy who makes a million a year can live beyond his means just like a guy making minimum wage. It's how you manage it that counts.

My mom was paranoid schizophrenic and a former partner of mine had a variety of mental conditions, including PTSD. More than once, I awoke to her choking me, thinking I was an enemy. Again, MY stuff. Does that mean that I would never date anyone with an acknowledged condition? Nope. Now, if I recognized behaviors and symptoms in someone and they denied it or refused to accept it or to receive medical confirmation, that would wave a whole parade of red flags for me and make the answer a very easy 'thank you but no thank you'. Does it mean that I might give it a good, long thought if I went on a couple of dates with someone and I really started to like them (back to the acknowledged conditions)? Yes. I would have to measure that 'like' that I felt against my past experiences and my own personal fears. If that case came about, I have no idea what I would do. It's one of those 'have to be there' kind of things, I think.

We all have our stuff and our fears and that is what will keep others from proceeding with you. Their fears. Fear tends to keep us safe but it can make you miss out on a lot of awesome experiences and wonderful people too.

If you are up for it, I say keep sticking your toe in the water. You're a great guy! Eventually, I think you'll get a nibble. :)

SuddenlyWestFemme 01-13-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemme (Post 504020)


My mom was paranoid schizophrenic and a former partner of mine had a variety of mental conditions, including PTSD. More than once, I awoke to her choking me, thinking I was an enemy. Again, MY stuff.


I don't mean to change the subject as I completely agree with what you said Gemme in so many ways. But I'd love if you'd explain what you meant by your waking up being choked because your partner thought you were the enemy as being 'your stuff.' I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. It sounds a bit like you are saying that it is your stuff that you were being abused (even if it was not intentional abuse and came from PTSD, being choked is being abused and it doesn't seem like it could be 'your stuff' even if it wasn't your partners fault. Can you clarify?

Of course, you may have meant it gave you some stuff after the relationship was over. Or because of your mom, you had issues and couldn't stay? I'm not sure and I'd love to hear more if it doesn't end up changing the topic.

And back on topic - getting to know someone is the best way to find out if their issues (as has been mentioned - we all have issues - lol) mesh with your issues. So don't worry about the having 'issues' part. And being friends first is really sound advice. It gives you time to see how you interact without all the baggage and insecurity that sometimes surrounds dating. And rejection by a friend just seems so much more pleasant (although still a bummer). But friends first is no guarantee either. I do admit that some of my friends would be lousy matches for me and yet are great friends.

SweetJane 01-13-2012 11:40 PM

Friends first as Scubadyke and others have echoed is great. But even that will take commitment on both of your parts to make contact, be honest in your communications, and do all those things to make a friendship work. Building trust and feeling safe in a friendship are just as important in a relationship---maybe more so because your friends remain with you longer than your lovers.

atomiczombie 01-13-2012 11:55 PM

The person who I asked if I could date her, she is someone I have been friends with for over 5 years.

Soft*Silver 01-14-2012 03:16 AM

I have a severe case of PTSD, have had panic attacks, relapsed a few years ago after 20 year of sobriety, and have multiple medical problems and health care needs. I was so poor I lived on $115 a month from welfare for over 2 years before I finally got on SSDI. Even now, I am dependent on family and a very very small handful of friends who help me get by. Had it not been for them, I would literally be living under a bridge in a cardboard box. I had a series of relationships that rocked whatever stability I did have and then an accident that took me all the way down. Not exactly datable material and I knew it. The fact that I knew it meant I was getting WAY better. The self preservation I was establishing so that I wouldnt put myself in harms way was significant. I am capable of love but just wont do it because one mistake by the other person could set off my PTSD and god help them....it wont be good. I have extracted myself from potential relationships because I DO love the people. Its how I love them. To not hurt them. And at this stage of my life, thats all that could come of this...

in saying this, I am saying that all the advice about knowing yourself and where you are in your healing and life journey is the key. If you are ready, you are ready. But I caution you to also know what you want too. Do you want to date or are you looking for a relationship? Because I think too many people set out wanting to do the latter and say they want the former. Thats bad news because its based in denial. You might be ready to date but not ready for a relationship. think some on it.

as for money, (and I shook my head over this as I read your words), I have dated the uppercrust and the indigent. I got treated like shit by the one with the most money and some of my relationships were with people who got food stamps. Which i do, by the way. I refuse to carry shame around about my financial stability. I am so broken I cant work, both mentally and physically. If you think not giving me food stamps to survive will pad your pockets more, good for you. Hope this never happens to you...

atomiczombie 01-14-2012 01:36 PM

Thank you everyone for your input and encouragement. It has given me a lot to think about. Having had some time to reflect on this latest rejection has made me realize something. The right woman for me will be interested in dating me because of who I am and not what I am. The girl I asked to date, she makes a good bit of money. But I would have still asked her out if she was homeless and living in her car. It's because of who she is that I love her, not her money, or house or car or her 401k. That's the difference, I guess.

I am making a lot of progress with my PTSD and panic disorder. My panic attacks are not something that result in me hurting or lashing out at anyone else. It's more like I curl up into a ball and shake and cry uncontrollably. The things that trigger it are loud noises, large crowds and the smell of smoke, although occasionally I get an attack and have no idea what it was that set me off. But this is something that is getting better. My agoraphobia is getting a lot better. I am getting out of the house more to see friends, with whom I feel safe. My depression has lifted and I am feeling optimistic about my future. I have occasional set backs, but the general trend has been encouraging.

I am ready to date I believe. As for a relationship, I am someone who takes a long time to decide if I want to take that step with someone. I will date a girl for months and months, even a year before I will consider a commitment. I believe it takes time to get to know someone and you have to spend time with them in various contexts before you can know for sure they are the right one. So I am in no hurry to commit. I would like to be further along in my healing process so that I will have more to bring to the table in a relationship anyway.

So there's my thoughts. Thanks everyone, again for your support and feedback! :)

Vlasta 01-14-2012 06:55 PM

I just finished read your thread . You received a lot of good advice, sincere one and very encouraging . Please , don't give up !!!!!!
Only thing I can add , I am very independent femme and thanks to my career regardless to my written English , I can't care less about the money someone has . I dated people that had no jobs , I support partners in need for whatever reason .
It's so sad to me that in 21 St century it's still such a stigma about a mental disorders by some people . I honestly would like to meet person that has no problems whatsoever . I have been in the medical field for decades and I honestly understand what are you saying . It's hard to start , but don't let discourage you by one femme expectations . There it's someone for you and will be happy for your affection and a good heart .

As I said do not give up , you are ready to date and I wish I could say the same . My last relationship was with someone I knew for over five years and I was thinking we were compatible and it was not a person that many assume from this website , No , it was not that one , but someone I knew for a long time .

If your agoraphobia it's better go out , meet people without expectations . There is a difference from what I need and from I want . Some of us are happy that is this economy we have what we need , I know I am .

I am wishing you the best and find a femme that will appreciated you .

sending you cyber hugs and good luck :)

Vlasta

Gemme 01-14-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuddenlyWestFemme (Post 504036)
I don't mean to change the subject as I completely agree with what you said Gemme in so many ways. But I'd love if you'd explain what you meant by your waking up being choked because your partner thought you were the enemy as being 'your stuff.' I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. It sounds a bit like you are saying that it is your stuff that you were being abused (even if it was not intentional abuse and came from PTSD, being choked is being abused and it doesn't seem like it could be 'your stuff' even if it wasn't your partners fault. Can you clarify?

Of course, you may have meant it gave you some stuff after the relationship was over. Or because of your mom, you had issues and couldn't stay? I'm not sure and I'd love to hear more if it doesn't end up changing the topic.

And back on topic - getting to know someone is the best way to find out if their issues (as has been mentioned - we all have issues - lol) mesh with your issues. So don't worry about the having 'issues' part. And being friends first is really sound advice. It gives you time to see how you interact without all the baggage and insecurity that sometimes surrounds dating. And rejection by a friend just seems so much more pleasant (although still a bummer). But friends first is no guarantee either. I do admit that some of my friends would be lousy matches for me and yet are great friends.

I'll expound more in a pm, but for the vein of the thread, my learned responses and prejudices from my experiences are MY issue to deal with and should not color how I interact with another person who may have that particular condition or experience. That's where I was going with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 504070)
The person who I asked if I could date her, she is someone I have been friends with for over 5 years.

Sometimes friends are meant to be just that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 504367)
Thank you everyone for your input and encouragement. It has given me a lot to think about. Having had some time to reflect on this latest rejection has made me realize something. The right woman for me will be interested in dating me because of who I am and not what I am. The girl I asked to date, she makes a good bit of money. But I would have still asked her out if she was homeless and living in her car. It's because of who she is that I love her, not her money, or house or car or her 401k. That's the difference, I guess.

I am making a lot of progress with my PTSD and panic disorder. My panic attacks are not something that result in me hurting or lashing out at anyone else. It's more like I curl up into a ball and shake and cry uncontrollably. The things that trigger it are loud noises, large crowds and the smell of smoke, although occasionally I get an attack and have no idea what it was that set me off. But this is something that is getting better. My agoraphobia is getting a lot better. I am getting out of the house more to see friends, with whom I feel safe. My depression has lifted and I am feeling optimistic about my future. I have occasional set backs, but the general trend has been encouraging.

I am ready to date I believe. As for a relationship, I am someone who takes a long time to decide if I want to take that step with someone. I will date a girl for months and months, even a year before I will consider a commitment. I believe it takes time to get to know someone and you have to spend time with them in various contexts before you can know for sure they are the right one. So I am in no hurry to commit. I would like to be further along in my healing process so that I will have more to bring to the table in a relationship anyway.

So there's my thoughts. Thanks everyone, again for your support and feedback! :)

Excellent to hear, Drew! Good luck, my friend.

mariamma 02-17-2012 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomiczombie (Post 503179)
Like I said, I operated under that assumption for years, that dating a Femme properly takes money. I have had so many people tell me differently, that I was beginning to change my mind and think that maybe I could date someone and find a partner even though I don't have much money. When I got shot down, partially for that very reason, it messed with my head.

Oh, and the reason I am asking Femmes is because they are my dating pool, not butches and transguys.

Then I must not be a femme. Love, respect, honesty and a sex drive are my top needs. And proximity. If someone needs to be pampered and taken care of, then her being honest about her needs is good.
As for the other thing, I'm a nurse and would not know what to do if my lover had a panic attack. Mostly because it's an individual thing. I do know that I can learn and work with a friend/lover who was prone to panic attacks. If that's a deal breaker for her, then again, good thing she is being honest.
Personally, I have given up on looking for love. I'm poor, have 3 kids, am missing teeth and most importantly...I am too much for all my ex'es. Yes, their pivotal relationships are with me. Yes, I break up with them (except my first gf and bf) because they regress. Yes, there was love but it turned bitter and I can't tolerate them anymore. I love deep and hard. Maybe it's better that I not love randomly.
You feel like you want more and maybe you're ready for love or companionship. If this is the case, wait for a serious love who can be with you without $$$ and understands how to relate with you and what you need from her when you're panicking. Wait for what you need in your life.

mariamma 02-17-2012 01:40 AM

Not to be too preachy but...I do energy work. Meaning, I work hormones, neurotransmitters and other trace protein structures that cause us to feel what we feel. Anxiety is from too much ACTH, epi/norepi, etc. and not enough oxytocin, etc. Vasopressin has helped some people with PTSD. Here's a link to a NPR segment.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...-by-ptsd?sc=tw
Be well


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