Breaking the Spell: Rethinking queer community
 

I thought I'd start this thread so that both the Gatekeeping and the Reclaiming Lesbian Pride threads can get back on topic. Those two threads, together, have sparked a discussion that we've needed to have for a long time. A very long time. Since the 1990's long time. :)

Most of us who've been out for longer than about an hour know that something has gone seriously wrong in the queer community. We have theorized ourselves into a corner that we no longer are able to get out of and our entire language and even what is considered possible to speak of have been hijacked by a meme we, as a community, seem unable to evaluate. This meme has held the community in thrall for well over a decade. It is time to wake up. It's time to break the spell. The meme I'm talking about is this: if you are oppressed, you are a victim, if you are a victim you are *beyond* moral blemish. In fact, if you are a victim it is the very essence of oppression to hold you accountable for your actions and to expect you to hold yourself accountable.

It manifests itself in hundreds of little ways. Non-whites in the community can--and I have seen and heard this--make racial slurs but should a white person speak or write a slur, we fall over ourselves to be first in line with the pitchforks and torches. Transmen are able to get away with a level of sexism that would be completely unacceptable coming from a cisgendered, heterosexual man. The desire to be inclusive of transwomen opens the door to situations where transgendered woman feels entitled to be naked below the waist, even though she has not had surgery. It puts a yearly camp outside of MWMF with transwomen demanding entry. There are more. We can all come up with examples.

We have talked ourselves and theorized ourselves and labeled ourselves into a place where we now espouse things that are completely nonsensical. Take, for example, the cry of ageism deployed whenever an older queer person says "you know, I've been around a few more years than you, young pup, and I've learned..." Let's be honest, is there anyone here who *genuinely* believes that if you take a 20 year old and a 50 year old that in that extra 30 years the 50 year old will have learned NOTHING that the 20 year old might not have yet? Nothing at all? I don't think anyone *actually* believes that to be true. Does that mean that us old farts can dismiss any words of the young pups? No! It means that if one came out at 20 and has lived the last 30 years of one's life out in the community, one has learned at least ONE thing that the 20 year old has yet to learn--how to stay sane as a queer person for 30 more years. The result of this is that we older queer people have dropped the ball and failed to mentor those coming up.

Either we are a community--in which case we have certain kinds of responsibilities and expectations to and from one another--or we are a amalgamation of identity groups. If we are the latter, we are each trying to grab our own slice of the pie. I would argue that over the last two decades we have claimed to be a community, we have behaved like a bunch of identity groups.

We need to reboot what we mean by community. Yes we should be tolerant and respectful but we should also hold one another accountable. We should, more importantly, hold ourselves accountable. Use the various ways we are discriminated against as lessons on how *not* to behave instead of as excuses for behaving badly. It means that we call sexism out when we see it. It means we don't excuse sexism. It means holding consistent standards--even when that means we have to hold ourselves to that standard as well.

I hope that this thread will catch fire and we can begin discussing how to move forward. The elephants in the room are finally being spoken of. I think the community is waking up after being in thrall for far too long. This will be rough and difficult work at times but, again, if we are a community don't we owe it to those coming down the line? In 1969, a bunch of queer people stood up outside of the Stonewall Inn and refused to be put down. They didn't stand up for identity, they stood up for values--values like justice and fair play. In 8 years we will celebrate a half-century of that which we were bequeathed. I would like our community to be moving forward, out of the fog we currently are in, and into a brighter light. A light that would be a worthy expression of our thanks to them for their courage, without which we might still be afraid, isolated and alone.

You are my brothers and sisters. I'm asking you to join me in working out the answers to these knotty questions using a different language. Let's begin rebuilding.

Cheers
Aj

How do we place boundaries for ourselves without turning them into "othering" or exclusionary practices/thoughts?

What are the types of questions I ought to be asking myself to make sure I keep my privilege in check and am inclusive while still protecting myself?


(Don't get me wrong, I'm not just sitting here with my thumb up my orifice waiting for someone to solve my problems for me. I am constantly doing that whole introspective thing, I just want to make sure I am examining every aspect of the issue instead of some sort of Scandal-centric view that really isn't helping me to grow as a person)

The Nation recently published an article by one of my favorite bloggers, Jessica Valenti, the creator of feministing. While the article largely addresses the issue of modern feminism and who has the "right" to appropriate the label of feminist, she also touches on her displeasure over the rising popularity of gender essentialism and the dark shadow it cast on today's feminist movement. Jessica's solution is multi-faceted but ultimately speaks to her belief in embracing intersectionality within a community known, quite plain and simply, as woman. And knowing what I do about Jessica I am quite sure she is inclusive of cisgendered/transgendered/masculine-male identified/FTM/MTF and every amalgamation in between.

I am in complete agreement with AJ. Instead of wringing our hands every time a new theory pops up within the queer community, let's use it as an opportunity to reach deep inside ourselves in order to caress and handle the fear that causes such polemic anxiety. I have S!O! much to learn from my older brothers and sisters here. While I don't really give a shit how you identify, on the other hand I do. I believe once we make the assumption we have learned everything there is to know on a subject our life engine sputters and dies.

Am I singing kumbaya? Probably. My crunchy-hand holding side generally trumps my radical feminist persona. And I'm ok with that.

Sometimes I use ugly words when I am angry or threatened. :( I've called women some pretty awful things because they made me feel bad so I wanted to make them feel bad too, even though those words go against everything I believe in.

My personal belief is that regardless of your orientation, one should never use their gender identification as a patriarchal tool of oppression. Period.

i am
 

Guilty! I am owning up to being judgemental about area's of our community. Room to improve here, and grow. And I intend to.

Aren't we all guilty of muttering "bitch" under our breath every now and again? The difference I am recognizing is how I feel immediately after that ugly word leaves my mouth.

We need to stop oppressing one another.

Aj, I think it takes courage, a willingness to feel uncomfortable and a commitment to take a look at changing ourselves as individuals in our daily actions and thoughts. This is what I believe will move our community forward.

A few years back I realized just how much the "victim mentality" held me back and I had allowed life circumstances to wound me and turn me into an angry, fearful, and stagnated human being. I have judged others and I have learned to forgive.

I have walked through life in different realities. Most of my life I have been perceived as masculine and queer. I have been perceived to be middle-class, working-class and welfare-class. Some see me as a foreigner in my own country and some perceive me to be white. I have been perceived to be educated and to be illiterate. I have been told I speak with a heavy Spanish accent and English is my first and primary language. I have negotiated myself through what sometimes feels like a world of paradox.

I am tired of the "me me" paradigm too. I will start with some of my transgressions. I cannot tell you how many times internally I have dismissed lesbians and white women saying “I don't feel safe. I need my own safe space." I know I have a lot of baggage around this. When I hear this, I hear, "You are masculine, you are a POC and you are wired to hurt people like me; not masculine, privileged and clueless about other cultures." I know this may sound frightening to some but I am being real.

I know I have a ways to go. I am trying. Trust me; many times I am as scared and leery of the ones needing safety as they are of people like me.

community accountability
 

~Differentiate between linking oppressions and oppression olympics.

~Recognize that discussing gender politics, pronoun choice, safe space, visibility, etc are privileges that most people do not have, and that huge swaths of people across the globe are routinely and rigidly oppressed based upon sex, gender, race, and class.

~Understand that no personal journey, process, choice, label, or experience is free of a social/cultural context.

~Understand also things like institutional power, blaming victims (shifting accountability), internalized oppression, horizontal hostility, and tokanism.

It's been 30 years and I am still trying to figure out Lesbian Culture. I feel like I am an invisable Femme. I've said this on here, and over there and in my real life.

Then I worry about bigoted comments from my on line community. I have no real life *community*, there I am a Lesbian,-Queer would be pushing it.
Comments from my real life lesbian friends are always *You're not Queer enough, except you're a jock*

From the straights that I've told *Really? You're Gay? You don't look it? P A U S E ah, just that jock stuff*

I'm introverted. I write, I draw, I paint. I run, I cycle and I kayak. All very inwardly tranquil. INWARD. The inward things, figments of our imaginations. So unless you look different, unless there is something physically proving ~whatever that is~ theres plenty of room for people to doubt you and judge you and feel justified with the doubting and the judgeing.

As always, writing this has felt very empowering.

Thanks all.

I also become very frustrated always having to explain myself. Maybe thats why I don't.

It seems that when one or very few members of a minority make a mistake or are a jerk then they seen as representative of that entire group.

For example one Transperson (Argentine, Woman, Master etc) acted in this or that way so I hate all Transpeople (or whatever the group is). This is not reality.

Individuals do not speak for the whole.

Yes, we "represent" our group in the same way we are supposed to "represent" our parents, and should ac t right. But I hope I am not held as representative of all adoptees or women or Lesbians etc.

We need to stop thinking things like..."well I was raped by a redmeck white woman", so I hate all redneck white women. and when I say "we", I mean I need to stop.

I hate the whole "safe place" thing.

One thing I have learned is that there is mo safe place and I have looked.

I think it is an excuse to be exclusionary a lot of the time.

I dislike slurs and derogatory name calling between women.

Bad enough i/ we have had to endure it from men since the age of time, I am far less accepting of it from another woman. I work very hard to not do it. Certainly I can find a more powerful word in my vocabulary.

Wow, our community is human?

The major ethic I've taken from the queer community in the scant few years I've really been part of it is "I won't ever tell you you're wrong if you won't ever tell me I'm wrong." We're all so concerned with never being questioned and never having to explain ourselves that we have this vast, unspoken agreement that no one should ever have to explain anything, and anyone who breaks this unspoken agreement is treated pretty harshly.

I think this is a big part of the problem. If you never have to explain yourself, you're never held accountable for anything. The community in general has this idea that you can spout off any old thing you want, and if you follow it up with "well, that's my truth" then no one gets to question you, no matter how sexist, racist, misogynist, hateful, or just plain factually wrong you might be.

The thing is, I think we shoot ourselves in the foot with this way of thinking. When people on the other side of the political spectrum from us, the ones who think we're horrible deviants with no moral center who deserve to be oppressed, talk about how we don't have any sense of right and wrong, or any morals or values, how we think everything is okay and there's no such thing as a moral wrong, this is what they're talking about. If we can't stand up within our own community and say "No, this is wrong, this behavior is not acceptable" then how can we complain when people who don't like us point out that we won't do just that and use it against us?

I agree with you about our community being accountable. In my opinion, if we cannot start with being accountable to one another here, then ? I am having a problem with the "moral" statement. Who's morality? There are some that think our way of life is NOT moral and I would disagree.

I don't want to get caught up in another round of semantics. Thank you for posting your thoughts, and I support you in speaking up.

Yes, but I really don't want anyone to call me out for who I am...it is none of anyone's business.

Individual bad behavior? Yes Who I am? No

Admittedly I live in the South where we talk behind people's backs and never to their faces, but who am I to make moral judgements for other people outside of the basics?

I'd like to echo this sentiment.

One thing I have seen and experienced is that folks are often super quick to label someone a "bully" for saying "Hey, that thing you just said is fucked up". If 3 or 4 people come in and say the same thing, then they are a "clique" or a "gang". Instead of becoming people who think that thing you just said is fucked up, they are people who have "targeted" you in some way and specifically have sought out your postings so they can "shred them" or "rip them apart" for entertainment.

It's that whole "whoever can claim "victim" first" thing wins. Or perhaps it's whoever labels another person "opressor" first?

Either way, I have seen it stifle more discussions than I can remember and think that it is damaging behavior. I've employed this behavior myself even when I didn't realize it because I often interpreted "I don't agree" with "you suck and are a x, y, z". I try to keep in mind now that disagreement does not equate "value judgment" (until it does).

Also, the "my truth" thing - and I think we have a thread on this somewhere? We bend over backwards to hear people's "truths" even when those "truths" are things like "Every fat person I have ever known stinks" or "I once saw a real live troll leaving candy under my bed". There's a place for us to go "Your a dumbass if you think I believe that" (in friendlier words).

There is a flip side to that coin, I do feel that we don't get to tell other people what their experiences have been. I've seen discussions devolve when people's personal experiences get untangled and all of the sudden, they don't recognize their own story. Sometimes that's because they need to hear their experience regurgitated by another person with a different perspective and sometimes it's because other perspectives make that experience feel scarily different.

I'm rambling here and don't mean to be (I'm a 'stream of consciousness' poster)...

I'm not actually talking about being called out for who you are. More not being called for what you do because of who you are.

"I'm a woman, I can act however I want and it can't be sexist."
"I'm a transman, I don't have male privilege to throw around."
"I'm a POC, nothing I say can be racist."

That's what I'm talking about.

Also, regarding morals: I think we've made a big mistake in not being willing to claim morals or take a moral stand. Yes, some people think we're all immoral. My moral center says those people are the ones who are immoral. If one side says they're taking a moral stand, and those they're opposed to won't, things will continue just as they are. Different people have different morals, and we would help ourselves a lot more by standing up and claiming *our* morals and holding them up against the morals of the opposition. As long as only one side is willing to claim a moral stand, only one side will be seen as moral. This is one of those cases where we need to be willing to say "no, what you're calling moral is actually wrong and immoral."