Originally Posted by Nerds (Post 185764)

ok so I have come across a set of rules of the Femmes out there but no rules for the Butches. So me and a friend were going to make a list of rules for the Butches - but we need some suggestions. To give you an idea - here is the list of Femme Rules:


OY VEY Nerds.......

The Femme Rules


1. The Femme always makes THE RULES.

2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.

3. No butch can possibly know all THE RULES.

4. If the Femme suspects the Butch knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES.

5. The Femme is never wrong.

6. If it appears the Femme is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Butch did or said.

7. If Rule 6 applies, the Butch must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.

8. The Femme can change her mind at any time without notice.


So far you have insulted every femme in here by insinuating we are fluffless mindless controlling cunts.

9. The Butch must never change her mind without the express written consent of The Femme.

10. The Femme has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

11. The Butch must remain calm at all times, unless the Femme wants her to be angry or upset.

12. The Femme must not, under any circumstances, let the Butch know whether she wants her to be angry or upset.

13. The Butch is expected to read the mind of the Femme at all times and act or respond accordingly.

14. What is important is what the Femme meant, not what she said.

15. If the Butch doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because she can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.

16. If the Femme has PMS, all THE RULES are null and void and the Butch must cater to her every whim.


So from this I have learned you see us femme's as angry, close to violent abusive beings.

AND we are the only one's who suffer from the PMS cause well butches just miraculously do not

17. Any attempt to document THE RULES could result in bodily harm.

18. If the Butch, at any time, believes she is right, she must refer to Rule 5.

19. The Butch must kill all bugs at any given time.

20. The Butch must "always be prepared"...

Here you assumed that all femme's are scared of bugs, always ready for sex and that we are violent.





we have 4 rules so far:

1. Make the Femme believe it is her idea

2. just grin and nod

3 if the Femme changes the rules - refer to rule number 2

4 no Butch likes to know all the rules we like the element of surprise

Here we learn that you view butches as head noddin' zombies


I am sure you all have some good suggestions... :)

Originally Posted by Medusa (Post 185784)

Hey Nerds,

I know you meant this to be funny and posted it in the humor section. I think you will find many people aren't amused by humor like this that often takes "man" out of the joke and inserts "Butch" or "Transguy" because it often creates this ugly thing where the Butch/Femme dynamic is just a dressing sheet that is thrown over a hetero relationship.

It can feel negating to the actual lived experiences of many of us here and can also feel as if het relationships are being heralded as the "real" relationships while Queer relationships are just cheap knock-offs.

I think you are new to the community so I hope this explanation helps you understand why people are reacting with irritation. Also keep in mind, many "jokes" like this have been posted over the last 12 years.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by EnderD_503 (Post 185790)

Hey Medusa, hope you don't mind me adding/giving my input on this, but how about the notion that all heterosexuals (both men and women)/heterosexual relationships are the same? If Nerd's post implies that "man" is replaced by "butch" or "woman" by "femme," then isn't also implying that all heterosexual men and women are carbon copies of one another? I think we should see all people, whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, African, European, Asian, butch, femme, trans, none of the above, purple pokadotted elephant etc. as individuals. No one group is a carbon copy of any other particular member of that group. We should know/realise this being a part of a community that claims to be as diverse as ours.

If we look at the larger picture, we're just creating more fences between people, in general. To what end?

Originally Posted by EnderD_503 (Post 185790)

Hey Medusa, hope you don't mind me adding/giving my input on this, but how about the notion that all heterosexuals (both men and women)/heterosexual relationships are the same? If Nerd's post implies that "man" is replaced by "butch" or "woman" by "femme," then isn't also implying that all heterosexual men and women are carbon copies of one another? I think we should see all people, whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, African, European, Asian, butch, femme, trans, none of the above, purple pokadotted elephant etc. as individuals. No one group is a carbon copy of any other particular member of that group. We should know/realise this being a part of a community that claims to be as diverse as ours.

If we look at the larger picture, we're just creating more fences between people, in general. To what end?

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 185797)

Um Nerd's post is am implication that Butch and Femme are a heteronormative carbon copy and we should be ok with someone making ha ha jokes about sexism towards femme's?

Cause that is what those jokes are sayin' and doing

Now I don't know about you but I do not like that kind of message shoved down my throat via comedy.

Originally Posted by Medusa (Post 185798)

Actually, for me, I think that het relationships are "normalized" through the media and most of our political, religious, and social systems. I think that we can internally "know" that the paper dolls that the media and systems of power provide to us aren't fair and real but I do personally recognize the validity of the existence of "het norm".

It is important to me in this community that we do rail against "othering". My response above was an attempt to do that :)

Originally Posted by Nerds (Post 185764)

ok so I have come across a set of rules of the Femmes out there but no rules for the Butches. So me and a friend were going to make a list of rules for the Butches - but we need some suggestions. To give you an idea - here is the list of Femme Rules:

The Femme Rules


1. The Femme always makes THE RULES.

2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.

3. No butch can possibly know all THE RULES.

4. If the Femme suspects the Butch knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES.

5. The Femme is never wrong.

6. If it appears the Femme is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Butch did or said.

7. If Rule 6 applies, the Butch must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.

8. The Femme can change her mind at any time without notice.

9. The Butch must never change her mind without the express written consent of The Femme.

10. The Femme has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

11. The Butch must remain calm at all times, unless the Femme wants her to be angry or upset.

12. The Femme must not, under any circumstances, let the Butch know whether she wants her to be angry or upset.

13. The Butch is expected to read the mind of the Femme at all times and act or respond accordingly.

14. What is important is what the Femme meant, not what she said.

15. If the Butch doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because she can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.

16. If the Femme has PMS, all THE RULES are null and void and the Butch must cater to her every whim.

17. Any attempt to document THE RULES could result in bodily harm.

18. If the Butch, at any time, believes she is right, she must refer to Rule 5.

19. The Butch must kill all bugs at any given time.

20. The Butch must "always be prepared"...





we have 4 rules so far:

1. Make the Femme believe it is her idea

2. just grin and nod

3 if the Femme changes the rules - refer to rule number 2

4 no Butch likes to know all the rules we like the element of surprise



I am sure you all have some good suggestions... :)

Originally Posted by EnderD_503 (Post 185800)

I recognise that the media and religion, in particular, attempt to do this, however, what I'm saying is that I don't think that it is indicative of the situation as it is. At least not in my experience. Stuffing heterosexuals into one box simply because of what the media/religion tries to do just doesn't sit well with me. While there once was a heterosexual norm, I'm not convinced that this is the case today.

Also, I thought I'd add that referring to heterosexuals as a collective in a way, imo, promotes boxing heterosexuals into one specific box. It doesn't recognise "them" as individuals. Again, just my take on it.

Originally Posted by EnderD_503 (Post 185800)

Also, I thought I'd add that referring to heterosexuals as a collective in a way, imo, promotes boxing heterosexuals into one specific box. It doesn't recognise "them" as individuals. Again, just my take on it.

Originally Posted by BullDog (Post 185820)

I don't understand your question Corkey.