Originally Posted by Nat
Maybe it's transgression that makes this discussion so much more of a focal point than any discussion involving feminine experience, or maybe it's controversy or maybe it's a masculine topic and therefore deemed more worthy of discussion...
Every once in a while, I find myself reading (perhaps imagining?) a certain strain within this type of thread that feels like this to me:
The masculine folks demanding more respect from the feminine folks than they already get while at the same time being less than respectful toward feminine folks who get it "wrong." I see masculine folks complaining about femme "laziness" and "apathy" and such for not always getting things right. Most femmes I know have bent over backwards for the butches they know or have known in an attempt to understand and be respectful of them. I even see masculine (and feminine) folks blaming the behavior of feminine folks for the behavior of masculine folks who send mixed messages about their own IDs - which I think is actually the most infantilizing, demeaning assertion regarding masculine community members that I've seen in this thread.
I am one of them masculine folks Nat who don't get respect from both ends of the spectrum, from my femme counterparts I hear things as, "ew that ain't femme", "Ew you fuck your guys?", "ew that boy is such a waste" I don't feel that anyone is bending over backwards for just butches in general, as I see it if a butch or guy went into a thread and said something about a femme, we as femme's would be all up on that shit... I know we would, so as a femme *I* see where femme's are flippant when it comes to how butches want to be seen or addressed.
I really want to be on board with whatever I need to be on board with to be an ally to every member of this community, and when I read about how femmes are being perceived as so lazy and apathetic, I feel exasperated, frustrated, helpless and disrespected as a femme. It's soooo sexist to call a butch by the wrong pronoun, to misinterpret their gender or to misrepresent them to the heterocentric world, but complaining about how femmes aren't being nurturing, attentive, understanding or respectful enough toward masculine folks - that doesn't hint at misogyny?
I don't think any butch up in here is asking for a nurse maid, I don't see how asking to respect someone's pronoun choice is sexist, it is NOT FAIR that we impose the *he* trump card on all of our masculine looking community members, it is unfair to question their masculinity if it does not fit our mind mold, and please don't tell me it does not happen, I can name a good 15 incidents... Any one remember a member purposely calling Toughy a Miss? I do, and I was disgusted at the venom it came with, from a femme... not a butch a femme..
You know what I don't see a lot of? I don't see a lot of feminine people here in threads talking about how lazy or thoughtless the masculine folks here are for not understanding and respecting the feminine folks enough. Do you think it's because we (feminine folks) feel like we always get respect from the masculine folks?
*I* personally can start a thread about how lazy and thoughtless both guys/butches and femme's are thoughtfulness when it comes to understanding my masculinity.
I have been guilty of defaulting to different pronouns in the past. To me there are two different main types of default. There is the default pronoun used in hypothetical situations and then there is using a default pronoun with a specific person, regardless of how they ID. I have mostly been guilty of the first type of default, but I know there are times I have slipped with the second.
Guess what? It's freaking hard. It's hard to remember, it's hard to keep track. Some of the masculine folks I've known from this community have even changed pronouns and identities sometimes more than once over a matter of months or years. It's hard to keep track, it's hard to always get it right. To me, it does become a laundry list, and at some point, the amount of psychic energy it takes to remember every single masculine member of the community's preference becomes too much.
This community is always evolving, *I* care enough to keep my eyes and ears open and pay attention to how someone is addressed or how they want to be, it's not hard, it's what one does when one is part of a community such as this.. If we didn't and all became how do I put this... Blah about it because it's hard, then what happens?
How much time and energy does a masculine member of the community feel they need to spend talking to an individual femme about their gender experience, identity, pronouns, etc, before they consider her apathetic and disrespectful for not knowing their stuff? Do they know her stuff? Are they invested in her, or do they just expect her to be invested in them no matter how much or how little they respect or even think about her?
As long as they need and want, I don't have to have a huggy relationship with say Bulldog to respect what she wants or needs from me as a member of this place, I don't need a kiss kiss on the cheek to listen to Rope's he wants and needs from me as his ally. I use them because they reciprocate this respect towards me... Now if someone was not, I am good with calling them on their bullshit...
It seems like many of the masculine folks here want all this "respect" and really sometimes I feel like the respect which is being demanded is actually being confused with male privilege. And if male privilege does exist on this site, then maybe working toward dismantling it together would be the better option than demanding to receive equal share in it.
As a masculine folk I would appreciate that is respected, it is part of me, funny though no one refers to me as a he automatically, what do you think?
PS. I am mutilating the English language by purposefully using "they" and "them" as gender-neutral singular pronouns in the above post. As odious as this is for my poor English major brain, I think I'm going to make it a habit. I just didn't feel like writing "her/hir/hym/him" a hundred times. Sorry, my dear English.
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