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Beau · 05-19-2010, 02:51 PM

There are so many issues underlying the pronoun debate, which are uncomfortable, possibly even painful for some, to discuss.

We can snipe at each other all day, but that's just another form of avoidance. If many of you, like me, are sick of this circular conversation and truly still wish to help educate and enlighten both new and old members, why not deal with that subtext present in the improper, intentional use of pronouns?

Otherwise, this is a clusterfuck without end, but -- more importantly -- it's a completely wasted effort and will just re-emerge in another form on this forum.

Dylan makes very valid points about intentional vs. accidental pronoun reference. So, my question is -- why does that occur?

My answer: internalized homophobia

Bulldog makes very valid points about the use of "she" needing to be viewed on equal footing with "he" if we're truly going to show respect for all flavors/identities (butch, trans, etc.). So, my question is -- why isn't it viewed equally?

My answer: internalized homophobia

Many on this thread have spoken to the pressures they feel to conform to a male ID in order to maintain public social status as "butch enough". So, my question is -- why does there even need to be a comparison between butches?

My answer: internalized homophobia [makes us defer to patriarchal standards]

What I'm getting at is, I hope, rather blatant. If we cannot accept ourselves as gay, queer, lesbian, transgendered, or transsexed, how will the larger society ever come to accept us as equals? Short answer: they won't, and we help them to never have to when we perpetuate these mindsets and issues within our own communities.

Most butches have horror stories of nonacceptance in various settings -- both straight and gay. Yes, it smacks of misogyny because the rules in patriarchal society are firmly established and catered to, but for us to swallow that societal bullshit and regurgitate it in the form of codes of conduct, social mores, and behavioral values among ourselves merely displays internalized homophobia.

Please consider discussing that in reference to Cynthia Nixon's thoughtless remark, pronoun preference and reference, and hierarchies within our community that manifest as male over female. That, for me -- and I hope for many others -- would be most useful. Perhaps it might even lead to real change.

I hope it will.

thanks in advance,
Beau

05-19-2010, 02:51 PM	#419
Beau Timed Out How Do You Identify?: . Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: . Posts: 178 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 71 Thanked 339 Times in 87 Posts Rep Power: 0	conformity = crap There are so many issues underlying the pronoun debate, which are uncomfortable, possibly even painful for some, to discuss. We can snipe at each other all day, but that's just another form of avoidance. If many of you, like me, are sick of this circular conversation and truly still wish to help educate and enlighten both new and old members, why not deal with that subtext present in the improper, intentional use of pronouns? Otherwise, this is a clusterfuck without end, but -- more importantly -- it's a completely wasted effort and will just re-emerge in another form on this forum. Dylan makes very valid points about intentional vs. accidental pronoun reference. So, my question is -- why does that occur? My answer: internalized homophobia Bulldog makes very valid points about the use of "she" needing to be viewed on equal footing with "he" if we're truly going to show respect for all flavors/identities (butch, trans, etc.). So, my question is -- why isn't it viewed equally? My answer: internalized homophobia Many on this thread have spoken to the pressures they feel to conform to a male ID in order to maintain public social status as "butch enough". So, my question is -- why does there even need to be a comparison between butches? My answer: internalized homophobia [makes us defer to patriarchal standards] What I'm getting at is, I hope, rather blatant. If we cannot accept ourselves as gay, queer, lesbian, transgendered, or transsexed, how will the larger society ever come to accept us as equals? Short answer: they won't, and we help them to never have to when we perpetuate these mindsets and issues within our own communities. Most butches have horror stories of nonacceptance in various settings -- both straight and gay. Yes, it smacks of misogyny because the rules in patriarchal society are firmly established and catered to, but for us to swallow that societal bullshit and regurgitate it in the form of codes of conduct, social mores, and behavioral values among ourselves merely displays internalized homophobia. Please consider discussing that in reference to Cynthia Nixon's thoughtless remark, pronoun preference and reference, and hierarchies within our community that manifest as male over female. That, for me -- and I hope for many others -- would be most useful. Perhaps it might even lead to real change. I hope it will. thanks in advance, Beau