[Jesse]

Thanks for answering BullDog. Speaking for myself, I do not have any ick factors around being a woman, it's just not who/what I am.

However, when I was forced to live as a female I definitely had some ick factors happening inside of me, simply because it did not feel wanted or natural for me to have breasts, and constantly be told I wasn't good enough because I did not embrace womanhood as I was suppose to. These ick factors were akin to having an unwanted growth, being told you can't be gay, being told you should be femme or butch etc. and not because I dislike women. I do not dislike women, I value them greatly for many reasons.

Jesse

Originally Posted by BullDog

I have read Ender's first post several times. I think what he is getting at is that males/men shouldn't be seen as "less than" if they do not fit into the social norms of what a man/male is supposed to look like, act like, have sex, etc. I agree.

I think if anyone judges a man/male due to them presenting in ways or liking things that are traditionally associated with women or the feminine and being seen as less than- then I think that is completely invalid and is due to sexism.

But Ender also throws in things like a man playing on a woman's team. When I read transmen's comments on that, I saw them as recognizing the privilege involved and also as a man they would want to play with their peers- not that they saw Kye as less of a man for playing on a woman's team. To me those are two entirely different things.

I can also see why Snow is upset because there is quite a bit in that post about female bodies being viewed as squeamish in some ways. And no I didn't misunderstand you Ender. I think someone can identify with being male without the ick factor of the female. I am a female and woman, and although I love children have never wanted to bear a child. However, I have no ick factor about it. I have no ick factor about male bodies even though I don't want to have one and am not sexually attracted to them.