Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadgeek
I'm curious, when do these nations become full moral agents? When, in other words, can we hold them responsible for their actions instead of holding other nations--Western nations all--responsible. I know you do not intend this but what you are doing is making these nations children, poor little backwards brown and yellow people who, were it not for the intervention of Europeans, wouldn't even think of such a thing. Poppycock!
They aren't looking for queers as an excuse. Their *religion* teaches them that queers should be killed. Not colonialism or imperialism. Most of these nations threw off the shackles of empire four or more decades ago. At *some* point we have to start treating them as full moral agents.
These nations would have thought this up if they had *never* had contact with a Westerner. It is instructive to note that each of those nations has *also* voted against anything related to women's rights in the UN, claiming--of course--local cultural integrity. They didn't learn sexism and patriarchy from the colonial powers, that was in play when the Western navies first appeared on the horizon. I see no reason to believe that homophobia was something that imperialism brought to these nations.
Cheers
Aj
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Great answers as always.
In many of these countries Women get executed for being raped, etc. But you know that. I know this seems worse because it is so shocking and so right now.
You are right . Countries are full moral agents and it probably is belittling of me to wish that the US were a better example and that we ourselves acted better in the realm of torture and execution and so forth. Like Jess said, if we even had full civil rights for our selves it might help...but maybe not.
The countries who voted to take out the part about sexual orientation are not all yellow and brown, but some of them are allies of the US, maybe that is something to look at? My Argentine childhood with the US in the background pulling strings was decades ago, yes. I should get over it and so should other countries. But does it work like that? History builds on itself and the same things repeat. Maybe none of this has anything to do with these countries wanting to take a stand that the "West" can't tell them what to do (kind of reminds me of states right fight here), but it kind of seems like that...though, several of the countries are in the "West".
I don't know what the answer is. I have a difficult time with people who automatically follow what their religion teaches and I know you do too. Yes, we can boycott countries based on this vote, but what about the countries who did not vote or who abstained? There are no surprises on the list of who voted, but if a few more other countries had stood up for what is right, the vote would not have gone as it did. It is so sad that a vote about a group of human's right to be alive should be so political.
While I am against the death penalty, I can see your point about the difference between people who commit crimes and people who don't. But who gets to pick the what crimes are heinous? We the people of the USA? Is it ok to execute people for political reasons? for being raped? for torture...but not if it is during war time?
I don't know.
Really interesting thread!