Originally Posted by dreadgeek
Have I expressed sympathy for them? No. This isn't about sympathy, this isn't about them, this is about US. This is about what kind of society we choose to be.
Pardon me for saying so, but I think torture is barbaric. I think that prisons that are no better than medieval dungeons are barbaric. I think that trial by ordeal is barbaric. I think that vendetta is barbaric. I think that any society that does not torture is a better society, a more humane society, a society less likely to turn in on itself and start doing gratuitously horrible things to itself.
People think that my opposition to the death penalty has something to do with sympathy or softness on crime. That isn't it at all. While I like individual members of our species and while I am quite impressed with what our species can do when we put our minds to it, I'm very realistic about our species and we are NOT a nice species. We aren't as nasty and horrible as we could be, but we are nowhere near a pacific or fair-minded species. To me, torture and execution, the pursuit of revenge instead of justice, is in keeping with our nature. But as Kate Hepburn says so memorably in The African Queen, 'Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we were put in this world to rise above'. We do not and cannot have a perfect justice system, so in the absence of such, I think we should be as realistic about who we are--as a species and as a culture--and if we do that, I am drawn to the conclusion that putting the execution and torture in the hands of our species is always, at its very best, a risky venture. Putting it in the hands of our culture which seems to be positively drunk with blood-lust (there are enough murders *per year* in the United States to constitute a respectable death toll in low-intensity guerilla war) seems to me to be asking for trouble.
When torture stopped being part of law enforcement (until recently, that is) we became a better culture, a more civilized culture, more deserving of thinking of ourselves as a great nation. When we reach a point when we care more about justice than we do vengeance and when we, as a culture, tread carefully around the death penalty, recognizing what a solemn responsibility it is to execute another, then not only will be an even better culture we will be even more right to consider ourselves a great nation. Just as the only people who truly can be trusted with high and powerful office are those who don't want it, I think that the only cultures that can be trusted with execution are those that don't want to execute people. The United States *wants* to. We want vengeance. We want our pound of flesh. Whatever that is, it isn't justice.
Cheers
Aj
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