[Jett]

Originally Posted by Arwen

*snip*..... My butch lover may be a lesbian (and that's all right by me) but I am not a lesbian in that there are aspects of lesbian sex that do not appeal to me in any shape, form or fashion.

I am not a pillow princess, but that word has been applied to me by butch lesbian lovers who were not stone.

............*snip*.................
You need to understand that you may be unintentionally being very hurtful in your forcing that definition on some of us. I do not think you mean to be, but that is where you are skimming very very close to for me personally.

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Are you saying that "lesbian" is defined by the what type of sexual activities a couple engage in? That you're not a lesbian because you personally don't like to touch female bits? I'm not trying to call you out and it's not personal but that's completely illogical too me.

If what you say is true it would follow that any B-F couple (no matter choice of ID female male ftm etc) who does enjoy, say, mutual touching etc. whatever it might entail is having lesbian sex? It would also equate to Stones (or anyone) who don't engage in these types of mutual sexual activities could not define themselves as lesbian if they wanted.

IMO there is no such thing as "lesbian sex"(69, mutual masterbation)... to me it's obviously a lesbian stereotype.

I left the last line b/c I think that's working both ways here for many peeps...

Originally Posted by Arwen

Yes that is what I am saying for me, myself and I. Not for anyone else on the planet. Just me.

This is a really personal issue for me, y'all. It hits on some really sore points in my past that I apparently have not yet worked out. I have had women hit me and yell at me and harangue me for my sexual preferences.

Yes, hit. As in punch.

So I am trying to untangle that from the word lesbian but for me, it is a trigger for someone to seemingly say that lesbian is the only word I can call myself. I actually do not think that is what Cyclopea was saying but that is what I was hearing/reading last night. That is why I disengaged.

When people scream and yell and harangue (has has been done in this thread in my perceptions), it hurts me on a very deep level. Intellectually I understand that they are responding from a possibly hurt place as well but it is difficult to get out of my own hurt spot to realize that.

I will try to read with an open mind and heart.

Please understand that my saying I am not a lesbian doesn't mean you can't be a lesbian or that there is anything in the world wrong with lesbian sex. Just like some people don't like anal sex or toe sucking or nose licking, we all have things that just don't work for us for whatever reason.

My reason is a harsh one for why I do not like some aspects of woman-to-woman sex. I was raped by a woman.

So there you have it. The base of the reason of why Arwen does not like some aspects of so-called lesbian sex.

Again, to repeat, I do not have any issues with what you (generic) call yourself. I do have issues with you(generic) telling me what I call myself. And that is what I was trying to rationally discuss last night/this morning. I am sorry for the anger and ugliness it seems to have brought out in a few. I truly am.

*sighs* but did you notice my point about "lesbian sex" is a stereotype? That's all I even addressed in my post.