[Chazz]

Thank your for this post.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I've read this thread a little here and there, and have largely held off posting because:

1) I don't at this point in my life identify as stone butch, though there was a time in which I did.

This has been my experience. I identified as "stone butch" for 14 years, through two relationships, then this happened:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hello Stoners...

I guess I am going against the grain here and saying I don't understand limiting your dating pool by what someone has wanted or wanted in sex. I could never not want to be with someone because of what they want or don't want sexually, I suppose if that would be a dealbreaker for me ( I can't even imagine) it would be different.

I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover.

It all just seems so predefined. I'm trying to understand I suppose.

Yep, that's what happened to me alright. My partner and I rolled with it and came out in a new place, together, and individually.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

One commonly held belief is that "stone butch" came about to refer to butches that were "stone cold butch;" the most butch among butches - those who were most masculine (and I pointedly state "masculine" not male).

This is the definition to which I have always held.

Ah, the hierarchy of butch-ness.... Agreed, that is a very common definition. I subscribed to it myself for many years.

I guess I'm an exception to that definition (assumption?). I look, behave, live, am taken for, butcher than butch, but I no longer ID as stone.

(I suspect there are a great many more butches like me than is commonly thought.)



But, back to this:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

...I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover.

This is precisely what happened to me. Imagine my surprise !

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

This is the definition to which I have always held. It refers to a butch who is unwavering in their identity, and in their presentation of self; one who would never sacrifice their personal sense of comfort, well being and identity in order to bend to the wishes of others, whether seeking a job, dealing with family, or a sexual partner. This definition, for me, includes no particular reference to sex/sexuality, but allows for each stone butch to define for themselves what their comfort level is and how they are going to hold that line - in all aspects of their life. Technically, that means a stone butch could be quite "free" sexually, including open to anal penetration or oral sex, for example.

But not just stone butches - all butches. Oh yeah, and femmes, too.

Hierarchies suck.