Originally Posted by christie0918
Jo -
I was going to respond to you in a PM as to not further derail, but it seems now this has become a conversation/topic for discussion.
I suppose you can call me a lot of things, but first and foremost, I tend to be respectful and kind to people. I find that moving thru the world is a lot easier if I treat people as I wish to be treated as opposed to quid pro quo.
I didn't call you anything negative, nor would I. I don't know you and don't have any experience in dealing with you at all. For me to speak negatively of a person takes a long history of negative experiences....not just a disagreement.
And, I agree. I try very hard to allow others to be themselves, and simply ask that they treat me the same way.
I found (and still find) the silliness to be disrespectful. I didn't smack you on the hand or attempt to moderate. I simply identified a behavior that I see replicated time and time again that feels disrespectful and silencing TO ME.
Okay....it felt like a smack on the hand, but if you say that you didn't mean it that way, then I can accept that.
Maybe I have some personal shit surrounding why to interrupt a conversation feels disrespectful - and I own that just as you have your stuff surrounding why you are offended by my comments on yours and tapu's posts. Maybe the two loves of my life (Jess and Bratboy) are both some kinda ADD and seem to CONSTANTLY interrupt me when I speak. We are both entitled to those feelings. If I am a little hypersensitive, then I do apologize; however, I don't think I was being overly sensitive to it based on the personal notes I got about my post. That's not me dragging someone into this, its me just saying, "Hey - I wasn't the only one."
I'm sure that there are many folks on both sides of the issues. Not to drag others into this...but I had many reps and PMs saying thank you as well. I think we can probably assume that we have a variety of opinions going on here since we have a variety of people here.
Since this thread is not in the fluff category, I don't take it to be lighthearted, unless at the time, it is. In fact, until Kobi started a new thread (yesterday, maybe?) I do believe it was the only active thread in the Lesbian Zone.
Additionally, I had no clue there was another thread about the BV issues - I don't often read all the threads unless a new one happens to catch my eye on the front page.
I'm pretty sure that there is one specifically about BV 2011 (by that name) and another that, I think, Medusa started about these kinds of conferences in general. Personally, I think that the conversation is important - and I never objected to it being here. I simply objected to the messaging that one conversation was "okay" and the other wasn't.
To me, that feels like policing.
I didn't see the conversations as being solely about BV. Honestly, the only time butch issues come into play for me is when they affect Jess. For the most part, I stay out of them, more because I am weary of "butch" being made less than or a stopping point on the road to male/trans. My tolerance for the pushing aside the butches in our online communities (feeding into real-time communities) is about nil.
Agreed. We're in the same boat on this.
I saw a couple of different issues being discussed more than BV and how they spend their money. I saw butches talking about how changing the venacular felt silencing and erasing. I saw conversations about why it matters if a transman heads up a group that was supposed to be about butches and the many faces of butch.
We can agree to disagree on your intent, but I would like to mention that if your intent was because you were "sick to fucking death of folks trying to define others" (not a precise quote) then why not just say that? I share your feeling of being sick to fucking death of labels and the ensuing discussions, interpretation of qualifiers, etc. I just chose not to engage in those conversations.
I didn't come in straight away and say "I'm sick to fucking death" because at the time of my original posting, that button hadn't been pushed. I was responding to a light-hearted post, in what started as a light-hearted thread. I didn't object to the heavier conversation, even though I personally believe it might fit better in another place, because I don't police people. I'm not a moderator. This isn't my site. This isn't even my thread.
And, I do engage in those conversations because I think it must be said. I see us (the BFP online community) doing an awful lot of the same behavior that we complain about the larger community doing to us. This bothers me. If we fragment and "other" parts of this community, we only weaken ourselves and contribute to the negative messaging that, no doubt, many of us have experienced for a very long time.
But, when those conversations are taking place in a thread I subscribe to, I usually don't get involved because I am liable to post that I am sick of them and that would be just as silencing and disrespectful to folks as I feel like the silly derails are...
Okay....this is a silencing statement - and I'm going to call you out on it. So, by what you're saying here...posting that I am sick of them is silencing and disrespectful, so I shouldn't do that. And "silly derails" are also silencing and disrespectful, so I shouldn't do that. So....what? I should toe the line and agree with everyone, or shut up? No thank you.
Do you see that what you're saying here is either that I should agree with everyone and go along entirely in the same vein or be quiet? Do you see how that's the very thing that I am objecting to?
I hope this makes it more clear for you that, like a whole lotta other folks contributing here, I saw something that felt disrespectful and simply pointed it out. I'm not sure what makes it wrong for me to do so and yet not others?
Christie....you can do what you like. You can say what you like. I'm not telling you to go along or be quiet. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Please feel free to post whatever you want to post. I will do the same. I'm not even asking you to like it, or me.
I objected to what you said. That means I disagreed with you. I can do that. And you can disagree with me too. And, just because....I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop with the "whole lotta other folks" thing. This isn't a popularity contest. This is a bunch of individuals speaking their minds. I'm not going to come in and recite how many PMs and reps I got. That isn't really the point, is it?
If you would like, we can continue this in PM.
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