Butch Femme Planet - View Single Post - What men say about women when they don't know you've lived as a woman

EnderD_503 · 05-09-2012, 09:52 AM

I'd say this isn't just stuff that men say when women aren't around, it's definitely said when women are around, too. And pretty frequently. I see it all the time at work and most people think it's ok. I don't see this as some "top secret cisguy thing" at all when it's something that is so obvious, socially accepted and happens daily in front of women's own eyes.

As far as where transguys fit into the equation, I really don't think it's so cut and dry. Many transguys who don't live "stealth" also have to face the assumptions made by cisguys or ciswomen who are aware of them as trans people that the only reason the transguy is saying anything at all is because he really "is" a woman or "has been" a woman...which many transguys would say they are neither women nor ever have been women, but have been wrongly perceived that way. A big difference between being and perception. But either way results in dismissal of anything he has to say because of that perception.

The problem and the solution are much, much bigger than claiming that all transguys must speak up against misogyny on a daily individual basis or simply calling out sexism/misogyny on a daily individual basis. It's rarely those situations that actually result in any social change when the media and government are all spewing the same crap and backing it up by claiming it is "natural" or "logical" or "reality." I've had so many heated discussions with both men and women over misogynist and/or sexist comments, and they very frequently end the same way. Which is not a positive way. The entire system and way we perceive gender needs to be changed, what we deem acceptable and the way that approach causes change is evident in the way society has changed over the years. People change oppressive beliefs, at least for the most part, over years or even generations. They base it on what they were taught at school as children and by the media, primarily, or through personal experience with oppression and discrimination. If the media, government and schools continue to peddle misogyny and sexism in general, then very little will change.

Is that meant to say that nothing should be said on an individual basis? Of course, not. Quite the contrary. But at the same time, I think energy is better spent trying to attack sexism at the root. As long as sexism is supported by the media, industry and legally then it will always continue.

05-09-2012, 09:52 AM	#7
EnderD_503 Member How Do You Identify?: Queer, trans guy, butch Preferred Pronoun?: Male pronouns Relationship Status: Relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 1,329 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,090 Thanked 3,878 Times in 1,022 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I'd say this isn't just stuff that men say when women aren't around, it's definitely said when women are around, too. And pretty frequently. I see it all the time at work and most people think it's ok. I don't see this as some "top secret cisguy thing" at all when it's something that is so obvious, socially accepted and happens daily in front of women's own eyes. As far as where transguys fit into the equation, I really don't think it's so cut and dry. Many transguys who don't live "stealth" also have to face the assumptions made by cisguys or ciswomen who are aware of them as trans people that the only reason the transguy is saying anything at all is because he really "is" a woman or "has been" a woman...which many transguys would say they are neither women nor ever have been women, but have been wrongly perceived that way. A big difference between being and perception. But either way results in dismissal of anything he has to say because of that perception. The problem and the solution are much, much bigger than claiming that all transguys must speak up against misogyny on a daily individual basis or simply calling out sexism/misogyny on a daily individual basis. It's rarely those situations that actually result in any social change when the media and government are all spewing the same crap and backing it up by claiming it is "natural" or "logical" or "reality." I've had so many heated discussions with both men and women over misogynist and/or sexist comments, and they very frequently end the same way. Which is not a positive way. The entire system and way we perceive gender needs to be changed, what we deem acceptable and the way that approach causes change is evident in the way society has changed over the years. People change oppressive beliefs, at least for the most part, over years or even generations. They base it on what they were taught at school as children and by the media, primarily, or through personal experience with oppression and discrimination. If the media, government and schools continue to peddle misogyny and sexism in general, then very little will change. Is that meant to say that nothing should be said on an individual basis? Of course, not. Quite the contrary. But at the same time, I think energy is better spent trying to attack sexism at the root. As long as sexism is supported by the media, industry and legally then it will always continue.