Originally Posted by EnderD_503
Their being embarrassed and apologetic is not my experience at all. In fact, where I work and have worked on and off for many years (warehouses, hardware stores etc), as well as the previous industry I worked in, the opposite was the case. Men were and are saying disgusting shit to women's faces. It wasn't and isn't something that they go around saying behind women's backs...."
I should have been more clear. The men I work with often say the kind of garden variety, ho-hum misogynist things that are accepted in this society. They save the really hair-raising violent, racist, homophobic rhetoric for the moments when they think they're, uhh, safe. You know- just us guys.
"...Many women don't say shit (or even defend these guys when someone challenges them) when a lot of similar statements as demonstrated in the article are said to them or about other women."
Once again, is there some reason why you're blaming women for men's misogyny?
"The fact that this shit is seen as socially acceptable should be addressed here, imo. When guys say this shit or display unsafe behaviour and a woman or transguy goes to management about it because its repeated frequently and often, management in those industries rarely take it seriously. And that should be the point, imo. That this is not some "shocking and earthshattering discovery" that men supposedly say when women aren't around/behind closed doors, but that men do say it when women are around and that authoritative bodies do not take it seriously. I've been hearing men say shit like this about and to women to women's faces since I was a kid, and particularly since I began working as a teen (having worked most in minimum wage jobs...which is perhaps another issue of in what environment and in front of what status of women men feel they can say and do anything without consequence...because there is no consequence in many of these industries)."
Ender, has it occurred to you that the men who say and have said this shit to you, and in front of you, say worse shit when you're not around? I have no idea what your gender presentation is now, but I'm willing to bet a mortgage payment that they perceived you as a girl when you were younger, and tempered their speech accordingly.
"It's time to stop acting shocked about something we already know is happening every minute of every day, and start taking bigger steps to make sure those with the authoritative power to do something about it start taking this shit seriously and put consequences and appropriate education in place."
Am I shocked? HELL no. I live with this shit daily. Are my friends shocked when I repeat some of it to them? You bet. Because they may be professors, or executives who are more in control of the environments in which they work. As you mentioned, class certainly plays a part in this discussion, but the intersection of class and sexism hasn't been fashionable to discuss for a good, long while. It's worth mentioning that those of my friends who are the most shocked, for instance college professors, are in the best position to influence thought on this subject, but are some of the most underexposed people I know.
"I'm sorry, but it's not for you or anyone else to label other people's bodies nor to tell them what their duty is according to the way you perceive their bodies. Everyone makes their own duty. I think every human being should be calling out misogyny, transphobia, racism, classism, homophobia, ableism and discrimination of any sort...but I would never place a "duty" on someone else's shoulders simply based on my perception of who they are and what I think they have or haven't experience because of the body I perceive them to inhabit or to have inhabited at any given time. You don't solve anything by mislabeling people's bodies and telling them what they should or shouldn't be doing according to their bodies.
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