[AtLast]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Met, that is where I reside at the moment. It is one thing I am extremely greatful for, the London genderqueer scene, is that although there are *some* internal ID politic arguments, most of those are from inter-personal cat fighting between long personal histories. There *is* "just butch". And yep, stone is kinda an aside thing. There but it's considered kind of describing a more... erm... personal *cough* aspect of one's sexuality that isn't really what people are interested in hearing over a pint.

Inks has met a few north american butches recently. And although she likes them, a lot, she does find the "preoccupation with constant self definition assertions" rather baffling and a tad "boring."

She finds the online stuff "horrific" and it's something she really doesn't get. I have explained where it comes from. But europeans have a totally different concept of space and community is different because of that tiny little personal space bubble and extremely long history of even a neighbourhood.

TBH, I'm not real confident in introducing her to any butch-femme scenes. I don't think she'd get it. We're used to hanging out with a big mix of people who don't give a single shit about our ID's. And we don't have to explain ourselves because no one cares - our personal relationship is kinda just that: our personal relationship dynamics and none of anyone else's biz. And everyone respects that. I don't tell my friend "I'm having butch problems..." if I have a fight. I tell her Inks and I are having a rough time and I'm stressed out.

the constant referal to qualifying someone else's gender doesn't happen. it seems to give us both a hell of a lot more room. the only time the word "butch" comes up is if it's *relevant* to the context of the conversation. and personally I prefer it that way. I find it suffocating and irritating if people keep refering to me as "femme" rather than "barb". I'm not a group of highly different people ffs. it's like someone saying "oh how woman of you." fuck off!

sorry, turned into a bit of rant there about my own shit... but I really don't wish to even attempt to get Inks involved in the on-line community. She prefers people who "get" her in person and luckily we have that luxoury in london, especially with the choice of genderqueer clubs.

That will disapear when we move back but somehow I doubt our personal relationship dynamics and our ID's won't be a problem to anyone we're friends with unless we make it that way.

You are addressing some things that I think about a lot. The preoccupation with identities - it feels so constricting to me so very much of the time. Yes, I'm a butch.... but this is a very small part of who I am. In fact, it isn't all that significant at all. I'm a woman, a lesbian, a feminist, a parent, a retired professional, a neighbor, a disabled person, a sister, an Aunt and a Great Aunt, a writer, a volunteer and on and on. Butch is just part of the mix. It is not the whole of my existance.

I have met and befriended some really fine people via the online community we share, but my life does not revolve around this. Yes, I like to interact with people here. My social connections and activities are not B-F centered. I don't date within this community even though I date femmes (although, they can run the full range of whatever femme can appear to be). To be honest, I don't care if someone I am seeing identifies as femme. Many women do not and certainly get the dynamic. They don't need the labels and identity restrictions that these labels often bring with them. i don't want these either.

I have dated more often than not, women that simply do not want involvement in online sites like this one. Some would not attend B-F specific events. This is fine with me. If i want to attend something related to the B-F community, I can always attend by myself or with friends that want to attend.

I do have a connection with the site and as I said, some people here. I will do some social activities to be able to say hello to some people I just plain like from this community. But, I won't live my life boxed-in with being butch. I do feel deeply about social and political issues concerning the B-F community within civil rights issues and I will always speak-up about these and be active in organizations that help in effecting change that relates to this community.