[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

There is a fairly large local lesbian "meetup" group that seems to be mostly what I refer to as "generic" lesbians - women who are somewhere in the middle in terms of their gender presentation, who tend towards androgynous/butch and are attracted to those who are more like themselves instead of being attracted to their opposites. This group includes a few women who I know are butch-phobic (though they look somewhat butch themselves) or who are vocal about that the This group regularly have topic discussion meetups and I'd like to plan one around the discussion of gender dynamics in the lesbian community, including the roots of the anti-butch sentiment (especially among the "sporty lesbian" community), and.... what else? How could I describe this in a way that makes it clear that it's not just for butch/femme women, and that it's to discuss and not defend (or trash) those on the butch/femme edges of the gender spectrum?

I'm terrible at writing things like this because I always use 500 words when 50 are needed. Anyone able to help?

And yes, while part of why I'd do this is to open up this discussion and make it ok to self-identify as butch or femme within this community, another part is that I hope that other butches and femmes will attend!

Wow. I havent been this offended or felt lesbian bashed in a long time.

I suggest you start by reexamining the attitudes and the judgements in the words you are using.

To call non butch-femme people "generic" lesbians is incredibly offensive.

To describe people and presume they are "in the middle interms of gender presentation" is bizarre. Gender is what is between your ears. There are many of us lesbians who are attuned to being female and we just express being female our own way. It is not a "gender" issue. It is being a woman our way. Please dont confuse the way someone dresses or their sportiness or their external anything as a "gender issue".

In the same vein, to say these middle of the road gender people who are attracted to their counterparts rather than their opposites is also offensive. We are attracted to who we are attracted to. Period.

I have a real hard time when I start hearing the term butch phobic especially when it is coupled with the usual....just don't get why "someone wants to act like a man, or wants a woman who acts like a man."

Butch-femme dynamics, masculine-feminine dynamics are much different from woman-woman dynamics. Woman energy expressed in every which way women choose to express it is different from the way mixed energy is expressed. It is not anti butch or anti male, it is pro woman.

In the same vein, there are many of us women loving other women lesbians who like, look forward to, and are replenished by our women energy only events. We deal with mixed energy all day long and the sexism, misogyny and other crap that goes with it. We like the safety, comfort, and rejuvenation that comes from being with like minded people.

Yet, and this is where our internalized sexism comes in, we as women have been socialized to believe we must be inclusive of all. Good women are inclusive women. Bad women are exclusive women. Exclusive women who keep masculine at bay are really really bad women.

There is nothing wrong with women empowering themselves by having woman exclusive anything. And, it doesnt make us bad women, bad lesbians, or "generic" lesbians. It makes us self respecting, self directed, self caring women who want to be around other women who feel the same way.

Have you thought of making a butch-femme meet up group?