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Martina · 10-15-2012, 07:16 PM

I totally agree with the second guy's comment about undergraduate science education. I used to teach English -- as a TA -- at Michigan, and the freshman Chemistry and Physics classes were not about teaching to mastery, but about paring down the number of students who would someday apply to medical school and to graduate school in the sciences. Students who really wanted to learn Chemistry would take those classes at community colleges and transfer the credits. People blame the public schools because our students aren't prepared, but they can pass community college science classes, which cover much of the same material. A final in a Michigan Chemistry class typically has questions on material not even covered in the class. That's fine at MIT or Caltech, but that's absurd at Michigan, whose students, it's fair to assume, are there to learn things they don't already know.

And Michigan students are already privileged. They have had decent public or private school educations. So what happens when you bring kids in from other backgrounds? They don't make it, at least not as science majors. A friend of mine has a BA and MSW from Michigan and has had a good career as a social worker. However, he started Michigan hoping to become a doctor. The freshman math and science classes ended that dream. It made no sense. Bright guy, hard working, but from Flint public schools. He could not compete. Lots of universities teach lots of remedial classes now, but in my opinion, if they taught their freshman and sophomore classes well, the students would not need that much remediation. A hardworking student who is literate and has passed Algebra II should be able to pass a freshman Chemistry class. Freshman and sophomore science courses are abysmally taught, and a lot of folks in the sciences seem almost proud of that.

And if they are still counting on secondary education to make up for their failure, then they better move fast and start doing something about the end of course exams that are being instituted in so many states. Teaching to those tests will kill any teacher's ability to inspire students.

Re the visa issue and science in the U.S., totally true.

10-15-2012, 07:16 PM	#209
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,289 Times in 4,167 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I totally agree with the second guy's comment about undergraduate science education. I used to teach English -- as a TA -- at Michigan, and the freshman Chemistry and Physics classes were not about teaching to mastery, but about paring down the number of students who would someday apply to medical school and to graduate school in the sciences. Students who really wanted to learn Chemistry would take those classes at community colleges and transfer the credits. People blame the public schools because our students aren't prepared, but they can pass community college science classes, which cover much of the same material. A final in a Michigan Chemistry class typically has questions on material not even covered in the class. That's fine at MIT or Caltech, but that's absurd at Michigan, whose students, it's fair to assume, are there to learn things they don't already know. And Michigan students are already privileged. They have had decent public or private school educations. So what happens when you bring kids in from other backgrounds? They don't make it, at least not as science majors. A friend of mine has a BA and MSW from Michigan and has had a good career as a social worker. However, he started Michigan hoping to become a doctor. The freshman math and science classes ended that dream. It made no sense. Bright guy, hard working, but from Flint public schools. He could not compete. Lots of universities teach lots of remedial classes now, but in my opinion, if they taught their freshman and sophomore classes well, the students would not need that much remediation. A hardworking student who is literate and has passed Algebra II should be able to pass a freshman Chemistry class. Freshman and sophomore science courses are abysmally taught, and a lot of folks in the sciences seem almost proud of that. And if they are still counting on secondary education to make up for their failure, then they better move fast and start doing something about the end of course exams that are being instituted in so many states. Teaching to those tests will kill any teacher's ability to inspire students. Re the visa issue and science in the U.S., totally true.