Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
julie!
I appreciate you!
I am trying to think about how my real-time interactions have gone down when this type of conversation comes up.
Like, I look at Snowy and Grant and can see such an affection there. Such love for one another. And, like, I could imagine them all cozy in their home and Grant doing what Grant does and Snowy doing what she does. The idealism I have about Snowy and Grant is that they have a very thoughtful relationship so if Snowy busted up in here one day and said something like, "I'm getting all June Clever today and wearing my apron and heels" it might be about role-playing, sexytime, etc. for her.
If Grant came up behind her and posted something like, "Lookit my little woman in the kitchen where she belongs!"...well, first I would probably bust out laughing at the adorableness of it all and then I would be absolutely comfortable knowing that Grant is playing with Snowy in a way that is true and comfortable for them.
Consensual.
I think a lot of this is coming down to consent for me. Like, I think you and Brutal get to consent to any kind of dynamic you want with one another and I celebrate the fact that you both have found each other in a way that feels fufilling and right.
I think I am orbiting around how it can feel nonconsensual and disempowering when people say things that feel like "Femmes belong in the kitchen" or "Im in the kitchen because its my place" or "Transmen know how to open doors".
Those are, of course, super black and white examples but I think about how Jack and I have the kind of dynamic that means I do all of the cooking and she does all of the yard stuff and vehicle maintenane. That isn't because we subcribe to the patriarchal bullcrap, but more about what we enjoy as human beings. Maybe I like to cook because I was brought up seeing women valued more if they could roll out a good bundt cake. Maybe Jack likes to do the yard because she saw thought as a child that it was feminizing to have to cook and thus, did what she thought her Daddy would have done (fix the yard and cars).
Those are the kinds of things we've had to examine because again, those markers we are given as children (or that we accept as children) come from jacked up idealism.
Doesn't mean I'm going to quit enjoying cooking because it might be seen as a patriarchal design, just means that I have awareness that I might have made different choices about what I enjoy had I been given a different playing field as a child. (and edited to add that I wanted to be clear I am not at all implying this is what I think of you or that you havent thought about anything, just talking about me!)
I so wholeheartedly agree with you about sloppy language here. I see that happening a lot with people who mean no harm but who may not have thought about where it all comes from. We're all in different places and at different levels of evolution around our stuff so I can accept that we'll have those moments as long as we're all open to learning from them.
I think when you say "It makes me feel really good to cook for my guy", there's not a damn thing wrong with that. I think if we caught our community moving toward the idea of "June Clever is who my Femme needs to be", then we need to be asking ourselves why our Femme isn't fine the way she is. I've had to do a lot of dismantling around that myself after coming out as Femme on the Dash all those years ago and thinking that all Femmes wore glitter, heels, and full makeup when vacuuming the house!! LOL.
I also think that there is a certain level of idealism around the June Clever stuff that can be independant of "the 50s were the best time ever!!". I was telling Snowy that I like to hold up the Huxtables (a family of Color where the wife, Claire, was a powerful attorney and ran her family with dignity and grace) or The Conners from Roseanne (class issues!) and say "Why do we look at the Clevers as the cornerstone of family when we have other examples?".
I think some of it comes down to privilege (or has for me anyway) and also some of it is just flat-out idealism.
I thought the Huxtables were the baddest ass family around when I grew up watching them but they were not as sanitized as the Clever show. The Huxtables dealt with issues like death, teenage pregnancy, drugs, etc. that felt very real to me. I know the Clever show was in a different time but I almost wonder if some of the Ga-Ga around it is escapist (here comes the kink again!).
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Yes and some more hell yes. I agree.
I think anytime anyone trys to say that all of anything is the way to go, there is a huge problem. And hearing things like....a femme should be the cooker in the family...always. Or, my butch better change my oil or he's/she's not my butch, or even A butch, is beyond ignorant.
In threads like this, when sentiments such as those above are expressed I feel like clawing my eyes out cause it makes me ashamed that some of what floats my boat, will be lumped into THAT sort of thinking.
I agree with you that perhaps the problem lies in the way things said, AND the way things are called out. When something as silly as all femmes fluff pillows is said, instead of jumping in with the assumtion that EVERYONE who drops their knickers over this sort of "kink" (gah) feels the same way, maybe we can be more careful in the language we choose to call that out.
I think for me, it's the lazyness in thought and language IN GENERAL that tweeks my nose.
I shouldn't generalize when talking about me anymore than those calling something out should generalize about what's being called out.
I mean really??? Who's fucking business is it what individuals do in their own home??? Why does there need to be judgement. Frankly, anybody who can own there own selfs, without trying to beat their ideas into others heads as the only right way to be.....those are the people that drop my knickers.
This is a general plea....can we all try to be more specific and me based when talking about our yummies. PLEASE.
Now off to mull on lazy language.
I appreciate you too. Especially right now cause I'm WAY over excited about the reunion and you make that happen. I'll be over it tomorrow hopefully and will be back to my normally cranky self.
julie
PS....fully admiting that I may have been sloppy and lazy in my language in this post. I have a major headache coming on. If so, I'll re-explain if needed.