[Darth Denkay]

I've been reading this thread from its inception, but as seems to generally be the case, I don't have the time to actually respond much to threads. I have been thinking a good deal though as many of you have shared your thoughts.

Third or Other Gender butch

I haven't ever used either term. I've always used trans butch. For a while now though, it hasn't felt quite right. I've used it to denote that I don't feel like a man or a woman, but instead someone distinct. However, it seems as though that term carries with it some expectation - in this community at least - of feeling 'male'. I don't. I feel masculine, which to me doesn't equate to being either male or a man.

My body is female. I'm reasonably comfortable with it, except that I want at least a major reduction (I'd prefer a complete double mastectomy but don't know if I could get that). I am fairly large chested. I wear frog bras which do a decent job of flattening and tend to wear shirts that don't fit snugly. I tend to pass, at least at first. I think I'm read as male by anyone who looks briefly, and those that look a bit more closely it seems to be a toss-up.

I also pack. It feels right. Flattening my chest and packing allows me to experience much more connection with my body than when I don't.

Now, back to the terms in question. I've been mulling them over quite a lot, and find mixed thoughts regarding them. On the one hand, third or other both indicate that I am neither male or female which trans does not. On the other hand, they still don't allow us to really identify what our gender, at least in general looks like. Other tells us not man or woman, but doesn't give any additional information. It also lumps everyone who doesn't identify as male or female in one group, and the reality is there are probably many gender sub-groups within that population. Similarly, 'third' only means not male or female, although it does imply that there are potentially many gender categories (third, fourth, fifth, and so on).

Reading through this thread, it appears that the butches who have posted could make up a gender category - enough similarities to define us. However, we're still left with no descriptor that gives any additional information about our gender.

I think I'm going to start using 'third gender'. It feels more right than 'trans' and I like it more than 'other'. We're always going to be limited by language in terms of identifying our gender, but third gender at least distinguishes completely from man and woman.

Great thread!