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imperfect_cupcake · 02-28-2014, 09:10 PM

Welcome to the planet concrtange

Just as the type of butch that you like is what you want, it would never do for me. I am not into old school type rules around "the dance" and in fact, I don't even believe in "the dance" because I never felt it in the UK the way it's touted in the US. I liked the freedom of there being no dance steps and no "understood" way of being. Nor do I believe in "energy".

Some butches click with me - and I have been with stone butches, transgender butches, transmasculine, genderqueer, tomboi, boi, butch women, butch as gender, and yeahokimbutchbutiloathetheIDsoletsjustnotgothere.
There is as many ways to be a "true" butch as there is flavours of ice cream in my local 200 flavours of gelato store. There's garlic ice cream, wasabi ice cream, lotusmoonseed cake ice cream, chocolate chili, purple yam, red bean and mango cinnamon. There's also milk free ice cream, made with coconut milk and agave juice. Plus sorbets.

Since coming out of my dating hibernation, I have had offers of dates from all sorts of butch. Some who feel uncomfortable IDing as it even though they are stone and more traditional. Some who are not cock identified yet don't see themselves as women either. Some who see themselves as purely masculine and yet gender less. But prefer female pronouns. Some that dress as dandies (she's a drag king from the UK living across the fiord from me) as a old style punk rock goth with eyeliner and a Mohawk (she's a tattoo artist that does a local circuit to up north and back) a stone butch welder that likes wearing beautiful hand made dress shirts and fashionable Japanese jeans, a Mexican Butch mama who is macha and grows plants in greens houses for a living, and as you might see her a Chapstick triathlete in ironman competitions - she's just coming to understand her butch self, an Irish stone butch woman, and old fashionedstone butch Sir. Also a transmasculine cop.

All of these are true. All of them. They all are true to who they are. Which is outside of the gender norm and have to fight for who they are on a fairly regular basis - less than they used to, granted, but they all still carry the scars of what it used to be like. And having a femme tell them that who they are, as they ID doesn't count is pretty cutting.

I'm just suggesting that instead of passing judgement on their identity, perhaps it might be prudent to say they just aren't your cup of tea, in terms of butch. For me, people who are very, very old school wouldn't suit me. But they still get to be who they say they are. No skin off my nose to let them have their ID and just because having a relationship with them wouldn't suit me, doesn't mean they aren't real butches.

I hope you can understand what I'm banging on about and you haven't slipped into a coma.
Gate keeping around gender and ID doesn't serve us very well. It just causes a lot of insecurities all round.

02-28-2014, 09:10 PM	#278
imperfect_cupcake Senior Member How Do You Identify?: feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?: Your Grace Relationship Status: I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In a gauze of mystery Posts: 1,776 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,426 Thanked 9,712 Times in 1,611 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Welcome to the planet concrtange Just as the type of butch that you like is what you want, it would never do for me. I am not into old school type rules around "the dance" and in fact, I don't even believe in "the dance" because I never felt it in the UK the way it's touted in the US. I liked the freedom of there being no dance steps and no "understood" way of being. Nor do I believe in "energy". Some butches click with me - and I have been with stone butches, transgender butches, transmasculine, genderqueer, tomboi, boi, butch women, butch as gender, and yeahokimbutchbutiloathetheIDsoletsjustnotgothere. There is as many ways to be a "true" butch as there is flavours of ice cream in my local 200 flavours of gelato store. There's garlic ice cream, wasabi ice cream, lotusmoonseed cake ice cream, chocolate chili, purple yam, red bean and mango cinnamon. There's also milk free ice cream, made with coconut milk and agave juice. Plus sorbets. Since coming out of my dating hibernation, I have had offers of dates from all sorts of butch. Some who feel uncomfortable IDing as it even though they are stone and more traditional. Some who are not cock identified yet don't see themselves as women either. Some who see themselves as purely masculine and yet gender less. But prefer female pronouns. Some that dress as dandies (she's a drag king from the UK living across the fiord from me) as a old style punk rock goth with eyeliner and a Mohawk (she's a tattoo artist that does a local circuit to up north and back) a stone butch welder that likes wearing beautiful hand made dress shirts and fashionable Japanese jeans, a Mexican Butch mama who is macha and grows plants in greens houses for a living, and as you might see her a Chapstick triathlete in ironman competitions - she's just coming to understand her butch self, an Irish stone butch woman, and old fashionedstone butch Sir. Also a transmasculine cop. All of these are true. All of them. They all are true to who they are. Which is outside of the gender norm and have to fight for who they are on a fairly regular basis - less than they used to, granted, but they all still carry the scars of what it used to be like. And having a femme tell them that who they are, as they ID doesn't count is pretty cutting. I'm just suggesting that instead of passing judgement on their identity, perhaps it might be prudent to say they just aren't your cup of tea, in terms of butch. For me, people who are very, very old school wouldn't suit me. But they still get to be who they say they are. No skin off my nose to let them have their ID and just because having a relationship with them wouldn't suit me, doesn't mean they aren't real butches. I hope you can understand what I'm banging on about and you haven't slipped into a coma. Gate keeping around gender and ID doesn't serve us very well. It just causes a lot of insecurities all round.