[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm me and that's that... stereotypes are stereotypes and I try not to pay much attention to them... masculine or butch.

With that I think there's a big difference between "want to be" and what we just are... what we are is always just that, what we call it may be more in line with just what we see it as.

I call myself a butch because butch I think of as queered masculinity and I believe that's altogether a different thing than stereotypical masculinity. I feel it inside me as an energy that wants to come outward and not as something I'm taking into me from outside cues.

I don't emulate "the masculine stereotype" because butch to me doesn't mean being as "historical/traditionally masculine" as you possibly can, yes I open doors and pull out chairs but you would't catch me dead with a hairy lip or letting my brows go to caterpillar status even know perhaps some would see that as more masculine... but I don't give a crap what anyone thinks... because I'm not a stereotype.

IMO butch masculinity comes more in the heart than the head... it's not something you aspire to or look to anything or anyone else for, it just is what it is the way it is.

Metro

Yup, your thoughts here speak to me. Looks like to others, too. And there will be more ideas put forth. Which is why, even when I have been totally frustrated with issues of butch identity, I know that there are going to be varied ways of how we all present as butch. Yes, from the heart fits.

I can't believe that when I came back online to see what has been discussed, that you, Met, had talked about hair - chin & eyebrows!! Just yesterday, as I was pluckin' and shaving my legs, I was thinking about why I do so and had some stereotypic butch stuff go through my mind. Brought me back to my coming-out as a butch (later than of lot of butches) and things I used to feel about this not being very butch of me. Fuck that shit!

I am so glad I moved past this and just take it for what it is- what I personally prefer. Other butches feel differently. Kind of funny, really as one of the reasons I shave my legs has to do with muscles being more defined. I got so much negative BS as a girl-kid about having muscular legs from outside of my family, shaving them was kind of an act of rebellion for me, not having a thing to do with it being something that pre-teen girls do. I remember a doctor (male) telling me during a pap-test exam when I was in college (and still hetero) that I should stop racing bicycles because my legs were too muscular for a girl!! Yeppers, stereotypes suck! What is also interesting about this is that my Mom always complimented my legs because they were strong, like your Dad's (he was a pro cyclist when they courted and sparked and trained me). I had almost a reversed experience with this than I hear from many other butches that were involved in athletics (and their experiences way suck, too) . So weird. Now, due to back surgeries (atrophy from nerve damage) and not able to be as active as when I was younger, I have lost some of the muscle tone, but still have some damn leg and thigh muscles (sorta)- and I'm gonna let them show! Dammit, hence, the leg hair goes!!! Geeesssuuuussss!

I think honing in on the whole stereotype area is great in a thread. They have slapped us around a lot in different ways. So, looking at them from our own perspective of how we view our unique butch identities is really interesting. Just as is the butch-femme dynamic is in its entirety and evolution! Can’t wait to read more……