[Kobi]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I have to ask something. This is not about Dapper's request being denied at all in terms of hys personal desires. It is important to recognize how someone else defines their gender and self. Since joining a B-F site (not even 3 years ago), I have been amazed at the general degradation of the term woman. As applied to butches or femmes. I have felt both anger and puzzlement over this.

Frankly, I don't believe this has a thing to do with or is about gender identification, but everything to do with this community mirroring the prevailing (and ages long) view of women as less than men and that the only purpose a woman can possibly have is that which serves men. (And no, this is not any kind of a dig concerning BDSM service, which is something quite different) that I have no problem with).

Among every vein of butch identity I see this and often the same caddy interactions among femmes reflecting relationships among women in US society at large. The competitiveness, the put downs. The distrust- all based upon the same old sexist stereotypes.

I just don't see our ever transcending gender divisions until, or unless we stop our own oppressive attitudes towards women. I didn’t want this kind of attitudinal framework as a heterosexual, a bi-sexual, or a garden-variety lesbian. Nor do I want it as a queer lesbian butch woman! And I sure as hell don’t want the same things I lived with as a young woman for my grand daughters, no matter how they choose to identify in terms of sexuality or gender.

Woman is not a dirty word and it is not the problem between and among us all. Sexism and the continuation of male as superior is.

And no, not all TG men are sexist, in fact, most I know are strong feminists. Also, there exist misogynist FIBs as well as MIBs along with every other identification in between as well and misogynist femmes of every identification.


Sometimes, I just wish we would get our heads out of the sand and take on the issues that hurt us outside of our little web-world (like sexism). Issues around gender are extremely significant in doing so. But our butch-wars are not! My personal rendering of butch is no more important or significant than any other person's on this site. Can't we work with one another?

I know…. The soap box….

Sometimes I think it is difficult to understand where someone is coming from when they say sexism and misogyny is alive and thriving in the alternative lifestyle community.

Perhaps some examples will prove helpful in this respect.

First, I have seen threads getting, what appears to be out of hand, with female/women folk being backed into corners by both non-female/women and femme women who dont like their views and opinions about whatever the topic may be. This attacking behavior will be allowed to continue until such time as the female/woman starts fighting back using the same tactics. Then, I see a moderator step in and warn ONLY the female/woman. There is no warning given to others. There is no general, this type of behavior is not acceptable, everybody knock it off. That, to me is sexist and misogynistic.

The only people I have seen directly confront non-female/women is other non-female/women. Then the behavior seems to cease and order is restored.

I have seen femmes, especially those in relationships with non-female/women, come rushing to the defense of non female/women in a discussion. It feels like females/women are expected to hold their own but non-female/women are unable to do so?

I have had females/women/butches/lesbians agree with some of my more controversal views and outspokenness in private. Yet in public, they are reluctant to do so. It feels like sometimes folks feel they are have to behave like they are walking on eggshells when all they are doing is standing up for their femaleness/womanness/butchness/lesbianism.

I have felt I am being told I am a second class citizen when I have stood up for my female/woman/butch/lesbian identity. It is as tho I am supposed to downplay it in order for someone who identifies differently not to feel excluded.

I have seen butch women present an idea that will have femme women picking at their bones. But, if the same idea is presented by a non-female/woman....it is open for discussion and elaboration.

I have seen non-female/women refer to women as chicks. Excuse me?

I find this behavior odd and disturbing and dismissive and sexist and misogynistic and homophobic.