[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hi !

Your post jumped out at me.. maybe because of the time, 1:11 of your post (my own thing) and maybe because I have usually liked your input on these subjects.. I've seen the stone threads take a bad turn because not everyone agrees what a stone is. I liked what you said about leaving room for experimentation! I cannot imagine a world, or sex where it is so limited, dependent on a preconceived notion that I would or would not like something.. each person IS different. There are hard limits of course I realize this.. maybe thats why its called *stone* ?

Stone butch (and stone femme) like MANY words in our vocabulary are user defined.. as it should be I feel. I get confused with the whole thing.

I've read this thread a little here and there, and have largely held off posting because:

1) I don't at this point in my life identify as stone butch, though there was a time in which I did.
2) I have always been frustrated by how some attempt choose to define the identity of others. I mostly overcome this feeling by remembering that the ignorance, assumptions and sense of entitlement of others is no reflection on me.

However, I was sort of surprised that by page 4 there has been no discussion of the etymology of the word, even after sassy made the post above.

While many words are "user defined," especially those revolving around identity (like "stone"), each does have a root from which it originated. Stone comes from the term "stone cold," to refer to things that were "very cold." The root of that expression is believed to reference when floors were often made of slate and would become extremely cold in winter. Other examples of this application include, "stone cold sober" simply meaning very sober; sober as most possibly sober.

One commonly held belief is that "stone butch" came about to refer to butches that were "stone cold butch;" the most butch among butches - those who were most masculine (and I pointedly state "masculine" not male). This is the definition to which I have always held. It refers to a butch who is unwavering in their identity, and in their presentation of self; one who would never sacrifice their personal sense of comfort, well being and identity in order to bend to the wishes of others, whether seeking a job, dealing with family, or a sexual partner. This definition, for me, includes no particular reference to sex/sexuality, but allows for each stone butch to define for themselves what their comfort level is and how they are going to hold that line - in all aspects of their life. Technically, that means a stone butch could be quite "free" sexually, including open to anal penetration or oral sex, for example.

I have seen a lot of nonsense over the years in which people have tried to say that if one is stone they would never engage in x, y, z sexual practices, but I disagree that the label includes such rigid definitions, or in fact, that it would necessarily include much in the way of preconceived or pre-defined notions of sex. Further, being stone doesn't in any way necessarily relate to being a top, or a "daddy." These are other, unrelated identities that can certainly be attached, but are not inclusive in the definition of stone butch.