[EnderD_503]

I really don't understand why people insist on defending monotheist religion and claiming that the christian bible does not condone violence and discrimination; that the fundamentalists who use biblical verse to justify their hatred are reading mistranslations or interpreting it in order to back their own ideas. First of all, the bible is so full of blatant contradictions that you could pretty much justify anything with it. Second of all, those who claim that christianity is all about peace, love and not judging others are interpreting it to fit their own personal needs just as much as those who interpret it to justify their hatred.

Originally Posted by dixielady

They love to spout the bible verses. YET...they only spout verses that DO NOT apply to them. I forgot the tally but there are wayyyyyyy more verses dealing with heterosexual and all-inclusive sin than there are for homosexuality. (Yes, Miss Dixie here used to be a Baptist Sunday school teacher...shocking, isn't it? lol) They only pick and choose the parts of the bible that serve their hatred towards others. They downplay or blatantly ignore any parts that apply to them. That's the part that really really really pisses me off. I'm no longer a believer in organized religion, but I do still hold on to some of my spirituality. I don't know which God they think they serve, but according to that bible they like to "throw" at us, that God is a forgiving and loving one. If I did believe in a Heaven, I would get there a lot quicker in my gayness than they will in their judgments of it.

I'm not sure how you can prove that the christian god is portrayed as "forgiving and loving" in the bible.

Some quotes with context:

1 And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.

2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.

3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.

4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.

6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;

8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

10 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

11 Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.

12 Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:

13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

14 Now the name of the Israelite that was slain, even that was slain with the Midianitish woman, was Zimri, the son of Salu, a prince of a chief house among the Simeonites.

15 And the name of the Midianitish woman that was slain was Cozbi, the daughter of Zur; he was head over a people, and of a chief house in Midian.

16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

17 Vex the Midianites, and smite them:

18 For they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of a prince of Midian, their sister, which was slain in the day of the plague for Peor's sake. - Numbers 25:1 - 25:18

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and [as for] gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. - Isaiah 13:16-13:20

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come .

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered , that shall not be revealed ; and hid, that shall not be known .

27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing ? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered .

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men , him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. - Matthew 10:23 - Matthew 10:42

Saying that fundamentalists ignore the sins that relate to them in favour of those they focus most open is pretty much what you do when you claim that they are doing so. Except you do the opposite, and focus on the biblical passages that you wish to emphasize, while downplaying the passages that describe a wrathful, unforgiving god who calls homosexuality an abomination formerly practiced by nations which have been wiped out by the wrath of god and servants of god.

Originally Posted by princessbelle

It is very fitting Dixie and we both know it is a big part of our discrimination down here in the south.

I've posted over and over that i believe in God and the Bible, but not the markers and translations that some use. To me it is a guide and it has been so dramatically changed over the years and so harshly thrown in people's faces for the wrong reasons that it makes me want to scream "WHAT GOD ARE YOU SERVING, IT IS A FAR CRY FROM THE ONE I KNOW".

How can you judge what the right or wrong reasons are? The history of christianity, as well as the bible itself have shown overwhelmingly that if you take christianity as what it is described in its own "holy text," as well as the acts of the majority of its believers throughout the majority of its history acting in accordance with that text, then the view you present here of the bible is really only the view of a minority of christians (and the christian text) over the course of christian history. The view of the bible and christianity as accepting, non-judgmental, peaceful etc. is a fairly modern approach to the christian religion. It may not be the god you "know," but it is certainly the god that has been worshiped and spoken of throughout the majority of christian history and in the christian bible.

Yes, the bible has undergone many translations over the course of history, it wasn't written by one person or in one fell swoop to begin with. The bible is man-made, just like god. As such, it is a complete reflection of the times in which it was written, and the time in which that particular religion was created and eventually popularized. As such, the bible supports stoning women to death for being raped or for performing adultery, massacring entire nations for believing in multiple gods and without so much as leaving a child alive, enslaving polytheists, selling daughters as sex slaves, condemning homosexuals as abominations unto god and so on. The modern PC version of christianity really is a mutation of the original.

So long as the bible is popularly viewed as real evidence legitimizing or illegitimizing an argument, then discrimination will continue; and so will people continue to believe that discrimination can be justified on the basis of religious freedom, and that religious freedom should take precedence over all other civil rights. And that is one of the primary problems with the United States: religion is too highly valued, and viewed to have real worth when it comes to civil rights issues. The bible is not a tool to be used in order to prove the necessity for equality. It should not, and the LGBT community should not be humouring these fundamentalists by trying to argue over verses from a holy text that condones stoning people to death, as though it would somehow help advance LGBT rights.