[Nomad]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Bear with me, this will probably be all over the place.

Above Blue - Nomads text Red - My response

"Return the flirtation" and "mutually engaged flirtation" is assuming the woman was flirting back. Why is someone talking to someone else automatically flirting? Reader stated that she looked like she could be a femme lesbian. What does that even mean?

I talk to everyone. I will start a conversation with a stranger on the street, I say hello to anyone who makes eye contact, I chat up people in grocery lines, gas stations, coffee shops. Does that mean I am flirting? Nope, because I'm not. I am just a very friendly person. And I am also very conscious of cues that I get back from that person. And by that I mean if I feel that the person is misinterpreting my friendliness, I stop, nicely.

I personally have never had a stranger, out of the blue, want to buy something for me where I didn't feel like there was something more behind it. Am I jaded? Maybe. I like to think of myself as cautious. My experience has been with men wanting to buy me xyz with the intention that I will now give them more of my time, etc. (Now don't get me wrong, I like men. In my area of work I work mostly with men and most of them are the nicest guys. I say this because I don't want to convey the idea that I assume all men are out to get something.)

I find it easier to be consistent in politely saying no thank you then trying to interpret each situation. Don't have the desire and I just keep it moving under the assumption that it was a nice gesture.

And you can't compare being a line at a coffee shop with being in a bar. Two totally different environments; two totally different worlds. (I bartended for years in my twenties, so I have lots of experience with people buying other people drinks in bars).

totally makes sense that there is an assumption going on. i think there's more than one but they're all fairly natural given the variety of filters being applied to the story. Reader mentioned something like it felt like the woman was flirting. i wasnt there so i'm making the assumption that Reader is right about the way the environment felt. those are just 2 examples.

i chose not to get caught up in the idea that someone looked like "a femme lesbian" because i understood the idea Reader was trying to convey. having said that, i agree with you. what does a femme lesbian "look like"? (there! now we're back to an aspect of the femme privilege conversation i derailed. )

we share the habit of beginning conversations with almost anyone. like you, i take my cues from the person i'm speaking to. mostly they're positive experiences and when they're not i also move on politely. again, Reader felt the woman in question was flirting and i was not there so i'm making the assumption that this was the case. with that being my jumping off point, i dont understand the issue with taking things one step further to see if the woman was interested in doing the same. very few people have the chutzpah to continue a flirtation without a return on the investment they're making when they put themselves out there.

i tended bar for several years also. i agree wholeheartedly that a bar and a coffee shop are two different worlds but i dont think they lack a shared arena of engagement. the difference in the intent of the people one finds there is another assumption as there is a whole group of people who dont drink for one reason or another and so they have to get their flirt on in other places. i've had more creepy experiences in coffee shops than i have in bars. (of course, i spend more time in coffee shops and am more interested in coffee than i am in booze so maybe my perspective is skewed!)

like you, i think that being sincerely but consistently polite by saying 'no thank you' mitigates any problem that might arise from saying yes but i'm not willing to say that every circumstance merits a no either. it's just what makes me most comfortable in most cases. i dont think your perspective is a jaded one. i think it's usually wise to choose the most neutral path given the way some people's minds work. it's not hard to misinterpret 'no thank you'. having said that, i have been in the position where a stranger has stepped up to make a similar offer more than a few times. i've said no more than i've said yes but when i did say yes my response was appropriate to the circumstances. i'm not sure what my point is here except that i think context matters. maybe part of the question is whether or not we can interpret these circumstances objectively from this perspective? we werent there and have to trust Reader's judgement. i wouldnt have said yes to the offer to buy my coffee either, unless i was flirting with Reader and felt safe saying yes. the fact that the woman was with a friend adds to the safety of the situation for her and Reader didnt lay out the story with the opening line "so i approached a completely random woman and came on to her." every circumstance has context. Reader noted the context of that particular situation and chose to act in a particular way given the information she thought she was getting from this woman. given the tone of almost all the other responses i wonder whether a yes in this situation would make (the collective and general) you consider the woman Reader approached as mercenary or just an idiot. what enlightenment would we be offering the femme who says "yes" to this offer of coffee? does context matter or is it always wrong to offer and wrong to say yes to such an offer? i'm not boarding the Naive-ville bus here. i get that psychos drink coffee too. but if we take danger off the table for a minute, isnt this just the way that some people meet one another? does there have to be a deeper meaning to it?

it's not my intention to derail the topic of this thread so i'll leave off asking more questions along this vein. i appreciate your perspective. you gave me more to think about. thanks for adding to my understanding.