[Kobi]

Originally Posted by charley

Now, it is crucial here to distinguish between a "fact" and a "belief".
The fact that the sun rises is a an observable fact, as all facts are. Anyone can verify the truth of a fact. Seeing the truth of something is always freeing, as well as seeing the falseness of something.
A belief is something which is held to be true only by the person who believes it.
And that is the difference between a "fact" and a "belief". People who start off with strong beliefs usually end up in confusion and uncertainty; and, being disillusioned with their beliefs, end up thinking that everything lies on some grey scale - that there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong".
Insofar as I am concerned, it is also a belief that everything is "a collective hunch of shades of gray". Making such an affirmation is in fact just a reaction against all the beliefs that one has been inundated with. And that was not the point I was making in my original post.
I would also add that the entire West has been conditioned to accept without questioning many things as fact. In fact, skepticism has been put on the back burners in the Western culture. But like anything, skepticism without any degree of self-restraint only leads to cynicism.

Are you sure you dont want to make a thread for this? Might be very interesting and expansive.

You say - "Now, it is crucial here to distinguish between a "fact" and a "belief".

The fact that the sun rises is a an observable fact, as all facts are. Anyone can verify the truth of a fact. Seeing the truth of something is always freeing, as well as seeing the falseness of something."

A sun rise is an observable event in places where the sun does indeed rise. There are places in the arctic where the sun doesnt rise for months on end. Yet, we believe the sun rises somewhere else....even if we cannot observe it. So is it a fact or a belief?

It is along the same line as....if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to observe it, does it still make a noise? Is a glass half full or half empty or both?

Fact? Belief? Perspective? Assumption? Presumption? Interpretation?

Fascinating stuff eh?

It sounds to me like you are saying you believe there are absolute truths and absolute falsehoods or absolute rights and absolute wrongs. If that is the case, how do you explain the concept of diversity or the various shades of navy blue or how different experiences changes what people see as true or false or immaterial?

I respectfully disagree with you on "the entire West has been conditioned to accept without questioning many things as fact." Much of what I see happening in the West for the last decade is the result of people questioning many things that are believed to be fact. Skepticism appears to be front and center not on the back burner. Challenging the status quo in many different ways is skepticism in action.

Overall, I am feeling you are trying to say something but I am missing the point. Can you clarify your point?