Quote:
Originally Posted by Nat
Thanks 
The best approximation is that I give masculine and male voices more weight in my own mind than feminine and female voices - including my own. This is not intentional or even conscious. But in reaction to feedback from masculine or male voices, I have a sort of comply or defy reaction. Much of the time my reaction is defiance, as I do not want to comply or feel oppressed.
In the men with boobs thread, butch women were stating once again that they want their gender to be respected, and a few said femmes were often more likely to use an incorrect pronoun or indicate in other ways a lack of respect for butch women. What I heard was a demand for more deference than they already get from me. And I had a hard time with that because whether or not I show deference to butches, I give them more weight than I do other femme voices or even my own. So requests for more deference feel overwhelming and upsetting for me.
But after wrestling with it, reading reactions to the post where I voiced this as well as reactions to a few other frustrated femmes, it seems to me like I have been mishearing this whole time due to my own limitations. There is an ocean of difference between respect and deference, and I suspect giving respect would not wear a person out the way deference might. And if I am deferring to butch and male and masculine voices over femme voices, that sucks regarding my relationship to other femmes and women and with myself as well.
I would guess my upbringing and a good 32 years of life have gotten me here. I am not sure if laughing at what a guy says is not an act of defiance, but I can imagine losing your mother young and having been out longer may neutralize some of the stuff in the water.
Or it's also possible it's just a me thing. |
No, that makes sense about me and men I think. Maybe I am defiant. I have not thought about it from that standpoint.
I actually am kind of defiant in general and hate being told what to do by anyone. Like I REALLY hate it. I am not sure I treat anyone with deference, unless they are really old. Respect yes, deference no.
At 32, I think I did though. 40 was a big watershed for me.
I have experienced Femmes absolutely refusing to call Cynthia "She: or even "Cynthia". Several have suggested she go by "Chris", because they had been "taught" that Butches should be referred to as Hy or He and by a male name. I am glad that you now see the difference in respecting their wishes as a person and giving them deference because they are Butch or Male.
Nat, I have always thought you were very respectful of people and way more open minded about gender fluidity than most. I can see you have given this a lot of though and am glad you have come to the conclusion that respect does not mean deference.
I hope that as you age the voice in your head that says a male voice is more powerful than a female voice fades, like it has for me. I think it will.
Very interesting discussion!
