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Bex-9Tales · 07-09-2018, 06:48 AM

Hi Esme,

I appreciate your well-thought out response to this. And while I can't speak for you and your experiences, I personally can't see how any MTF can claim to not have been affected in any way by male socialization; I actually used to think the same way as you - that I hated being socialized male, that I always "thought" female - and in many ways I suppose I did. I always gave more accord to women than men, I was always a bit suspicious of men. But as I began to make myself become more self-deconstructive and aware, I could see the sub-conscious signs of it. The way women born and raised as women often constantly apologize for things they don't need to, the way they are self-effacing, they way they will back down from arguments instead of standing their ground. So so so much of this comes from the 24/7 indoctrination from Western culture, and we don't even appreciate it. How it shapes, molds, and warps us, in ways we don't even appreciate it.

And yes, male privilege is out there, and yes, we benefited from it. There have definitely been times I can recall where I was given more accord because I was presenting male at the time. I can definition think of times where I had to aggressively push a cause to get something - a raise, more resources, what have you, and a lot of that came from pre-programmed "male" behaviors.

And yes, definitely there are some transwomen who "grok" womanthink better than others. I am sad to say that I have come across transwomen who seem to be, and I apologize for how shitty this is going to sound, little more than a male in a dress. They're anti-feminist, they're entitled in the way only men can be, they talk over other women constantly, they tear other women down. And you see it in some of the younger, entitled generation too with this whole Cotton Ceiling bullcrap.

So TLDR, you no doubt experienced male privilege in countless million little ways that you probably would take for granted, even as you hated being identified as male. That doesn't mean it didn't exist for you. As I stated before, if we really want to create a more egalitarian society, and do right by our fellow women, then we must transition our minds as well as our bodies. And yes, as you say, some of us may discover that we don't need to go through as much self-deconstruction and self-deprogramming as others, I have no problems with that line of thinking. But I would be shocked if there was a MTF who didn't need to question at least some of their behavior patterns and thought processes, even just a little. And this isn't meant to be an attack, simply a statement of fact, at how we are deeply influenced by our cultures, even at a non-conscious level.

07-09-2018, 06:48 AM	#14
Bex-9Tales Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Transwoman femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Poly Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 13 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 10 Thanked 46 Times in 12 Posts Rep Power: 1503246	Hi Esme, I appreciate your well-thought out response to this. And while I can't speak for you and your experiences, I personally can't see how any MTF can claim to not have been affected in any way by male socialization; I actually used to think the same way as you - that I hated being socialized male, that I always "thought" female - and in many ways I suppose I did. I always gave more accord to women than men, I was always a bit suspicious of men. But as I began to make myself become more self-deconstructive and aware, I could see the sub-conscious signs of it. The way women born and raised as women often constantly apologize for things they don't need to, the way they are self-effacing, they way they will back down from arguments instead of standing their ground. So so so much of this comes from the 24/7 indoctrination from Western culture, and we don't even appreciate it. How it shapes, molds, and warps us, in ways we don't even appreciate it. And yes, male privilege is out there, and yes, we benefited from it. There have definitely been times I can recall where I was given more accord because I was presenting male at the time. I can definition think of times where I had to aggressively push a cause to get something - a raise, more resources, what have you, and a lot of that came from pre-programmed "male" behaviors. And yes, definitely there are some transwomen who "grok" womanthink better than others. I am sad to say that I have come across transwomen who seem to be, and I apologize for how shitty this is going to sound, little more than a male in a dress. They're anti-feminist, they're entitled in the way only men can be, they talk over other women constantly, they tear other women down. And you see it in some of the younger, entitled generation too with this whole Cotton Ceiling bullcrap. So TLDR, you no doubt experienced male privilege in countless million little ways that you probably would take for granted, even as you hated being identified as male. That doesn't mean it didn't exist for you. As I stated before, if we really want to create a more egalitarian society, and do right by our fellow women, then we must transition our minds as well as our bodies. And yes, as you say, some of us may discover that we don't need to go through as much self-deconstruction and self-deprogramming as others, I have no problems with that line of thinking. But I would be shocked if there was a MTF who didn't need to question at least some of their behavior patterns and thought processes, even just a little. And this isn't meant to be an attack, simply a statement of fact, at how we are deeply influenced by our cultures, even at a non-conscious level.