Misogyny/Sexism in Butch/Femme & LGBTQ communities

[honeybarbara]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

My thoughts on Mel Gibson (bitch had to have my last name)

So you got caught by some gold digger,serves a warning to everyone out there.
You acted like a dog in heat,I bet your wife of 28 years is laughing her head off.

Keep it in your pants!.I am not just talking about your wallet fellows.

And Whoopie Goldberg said he's not a racist,and I believe her.

Originally Posted by BornBronson

HoneyB,do you personally know Mel,are the relationship these two had together?.Talking about Whoopie.

When I first heard that tape it sounded like he was rehearsing a role,was he though?,rehearsing for a role?.We will all have to wait for In Session on court tv to find out I suppose.

I don't really know what yer on about to be honest. I said I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion about character if they spouted the term "yeah, but it's not rape, rape."

do you know them personally? wtf are you on about?

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Bronson was also sympathetic to Chris Brown after he beat Rhianna.

Right?!

We all know what is going on here, I suggest cooler heads prevail and we just shake our heads and move on. Nothing new to see here people!

[June]

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[weatherboi]

Wow victim blaming much.
What gives??? You think all women are gold diggers???
Your toxic ways of thinking just continue the oppression!!!

Originally Posted by BornBronson

My thoughts on Mel Gibson (bitch had to have my last name)

So you got caught by some gold digger,serves a warning to everyone out there.
You acted like a dog in heat,I bet your wife of 28 years is laughing her head off.

Keep it in your pants!.I am not just talking about your wallet fellows.

And Whoopie Goldberg said he's not a racist,and I believe her.

[Mitmo01]

First of all mel gibson is a certified crazy asshole who deserves everythin g he getsi hope he gets thrown in jail he deserves it after knocking out her teeth and bruising his newborn infant. Fuck mel gibson and if it walks and talks like a duck its a fucking duck i hope she gets millions outofhis racist anti semetic woman hating ass and he should finally just go away

[Admin]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

My thoughts on Mel Gibson (bitch had to have my last name)

So you got caught by some gold digger,serves a warning to everyone out there.
You acted like a dog in heat,I bet your wife of 28 years is laughing her head off.

Keep it in your pants!.I am not just talking about your wallet fellows.

And Whoopie Goldberg said he's not a racist,and I believe her.

BornBronson,

I've been out most of the day and have just now seen some of the posts you've been making not only in here but on the rest of the site.

This is a woman-positive community with zero tolerance for hate-speech directed toward women, and after reading some of the posts you have made here today and previously in other parts of the site, I am unwilling to let this behavior go on unexamined.

I need for you to take the next 30 days off and do some serious introspection about how you want to continue in this community. You cannot exist here while refusing to examine your use of hate-speech, highly sexist remarks, and racially provocative posts. This website needs to be reasonably safe and sane for everyone here and your posts do not reflect the type of atmosphere we are trying to create.

I suggest over the next 30 days that you take the time to educate yourself and figure out a way to be less obnoxious in this community.

You are on a time-out which means that you are NOT to make another screen name or use this site to post, interact, or otherwise or you will be permanently banned.

When you come back after 30 days, we will expect your behavior here to reflect the values of this community.

Thanks,
Admin

[Heart]

In case it should happen that Gibson's girlfriend is, in fact, a "gold digger," and is even arrested and prosecuted for extortion, that does not in any way change the fact that Gibson is a racist and a sexist. We have to break the association between the abuser's behavior and the recipient's actions, otherwise we will never overcome the tendency to hold victims responsible for abuse, even when they are not extortionists. If she is extorting from him, there are many ways he could handle it; threats of death and vile sexist and racist comments are the way he chose to do it. That says something about HIM.

Heart

[Scorp]

It sure does and he has proven to be a LETHAL WEAPON by his actions. Nothing but an abusive, racist, sexist, prick, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Heart

In case it should happen that Gibson's girlfriend is, in fact, a "gold digger," and is even arrested and prosecuted for extortion, that does not in any way change the fact that Gibson is a racist and a sexist. We have to break the association between the abuser's behavior and the recipient's actions, otherwise we will never overcome the tendency to hold victims responsible for abuse, even when they are not extortionists. If she is extorting from him, there are many ways he could handle it; threats of death and vile sexist and racist comments are the way he chose to do it. That says something about HIM.

Heart

[AtLastHome]

Originally Posted by Heart

In case it should happen that Gibson's girlfriend is, in fact, a "gold digger," and is even arrested and prosecuted for extortion, that does not in any way change the fact that Gibson is a racist and a sexist. We have to break the association between the abuser's behavior and the recipient's actions, otherwise we will never overcome the tendency to hold victims responsible for abuse, even when they are not extortionists. If she is extorting from him, there are many ways he could handle it; threats of death and vile sexist and racist comments are the way he chose to do it. That says something about HIM.

Heart

Absolutely! Gibson has certainly exhibited racist, anti-semitic and sexist attitudes in he past! As well as exhibiting quite a violent temper. Those are part of his personality. Extortion may be part of hers but that doesn't change his behavior. I fully expect his publicist saying he is entering rehab again ... yanno, the booze makes him do it...

I get so tired of this line of thinking..... GRRRRR!

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Heart

In case it should happen that Gibson's girlfriend is, in fact, a "gold digger," and is even arrested and prosecuted for extortion, that does not in any way change the fact that Gibson is a racist and a sexist. We have to break the association between the abuser's behavior and the recipient's actions, otherwise we will never overcome the tendency to hold victims responsible for abuse, even when they are not extortionists. If she is extorting from him, there are many ways he could handle it; threats of death and vile sexist and racist comments are the way he chose to do it. That says something about HIM.

Heart

And...whether we may personally dislike it or not...being a "gold digger" is not extortion, or fraud, or illegal. People across many cultures have a long history of marrying for money. In some it's even considered the responsible and right thing to do to take care of your family.

Maybe she was with him for his money, maybe she wasn't. I don't know her, so I can't say. But, even if she was, that's not illegal. If he didn't want her to get more than he felt she should have, then there are contracts to ensure that. If he feels strongly about that, and didn't take that step, then that's his fault - not hers.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Heart

In case it should happen that Gibson's girlfriend is, in fact, a "gold digger," and is even arrested and prosecuted for extortion, that does not in any way change the fact that Gibson is a racist and a sexist. We have to break the association between the abuser's behavior and the recipient's actions, otherwise we will never overcome the tendency to hold victims responsible for abuse, even when they are not extortionists. If she is extorting from him, there are many ways he could handle it; threats of death and vile sexist and racist comments are the way he chose to do it. That says something about HIM.

Heart

Thank you, Heart. The other thing I want to say real quick about the invocation of Whoopi Goldberg--let's be real about a couple of things:

1) If she had said that Gibson was a racist (which he obviously is) then it would have been a non-event. It became news because it fits a pre-existing media narrative.

2) Whoopi Goldberg's judgement on this is, let us say, questionable. She defended Ted Danson when he did a bit in *blackface*. BLACKFACE! In the late 80s/early 90s!

3) She's defended Roman Polanski.

This would be, I think, strike three as far as her judgement.

It may also be that she is using a, well, conservative frame to define 'racist'. What I mean by that is that it seems that conservatives have a somewhat different view of the term racist than, say, I might. I think the conservative frame for racist is as follows:

Public behavior: Provided that your public speech does not contain racial epithets and your private behavior is that you associate with non-whites either through friendship or employment you cannot be considered a racist. No matter what statements you might make that rely upon racial stereotypes, as long as you do not use an epithet that statement cannot be considered racist.

Private behavior: Provided that you associate with non-whites either through friendship or employment then any private use of racial epithets or invocation of stereotypes cannot be considered racist. As long as you are willing to be seen in public or to be made known that you associate with non-whites in a voluntary fashion you cannot be considered racist.

So by both the public and private definitions, from the conservative frame Mel Gibson is not a racist and I think that's the frame that Ms Goldberg is using. That doesn't mean that Mel Gibson isn't *actually* a racist--it's obvious that he is--but there is an internally consistent (or at least somewhat consistent) frame by which one can construct that Mel Gibson isn't a racist.
Like I said, I think that Ms Goldberg's judgement on these matters do not exactly inspire confidence.


Cheers
Aj

[AtLastHome]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Thank you, Heart. The other thing I want to say real quick about the invocation of Whoopi Goldberg--let's be real about a couple of things:

1) If she had said that Gibson was a racist (which he obviously is) then it would have been a non-event. It became news because it fits a pre-existing media narrative.

2) Whoopi Goldberg's judgement on this is, let us say, questionable. She defended Ted Danson when he did a bit in *blackface*. BLACKFACE! In the late 80s/early 90s!

3) She's defended Roman Polanski.

This would be, I think, strike three as far as her judgement.

It may also be that she is using a, well, conservative frame to define 'racist'. What I mean by that is that it seems that conservatives have a somewhat different view of the term racist than, say, I might. I think the conservative frame for racist is as follows:

Public behavior: Provided that your public speech does not contain racial epithets and your private behavior is that you associate with non-whites either through friendship or employment you cannot be considered a racist. No matter what statements you might make that rely upon racial stereotypes, as long as you do not use an epithet that statement cannot be considered racist.

Private behavior: Provided that you associate with non-whites either through friendship or employment then any private use of racial epithets or invocation of stereotypes cannot be considered racist. As long as you are willing to be seen in public or to be made known that you associate with non-whites in a voluntary fashion you cannot be considered racist.

So by both the public and private definitions, from the conservative frame Mel Gibson is not a racist and I think that's the frame that Ms Goldberg is using. That doesn't mean that Mel Gibson isn't *actually* a racist--it's obvious that he is--but there is an internally consistent (or at least somewhat consistent) frame by which one can construct that Mel Gibson isn't a racist.
Like I said, I think that Ms Goldberg's judgement on these matters do not exactly inspire confidence.


Cheers
Aj

Yup... just look at recent conservative responses to the use of the term colored... it is offensive, but not racist!

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by JustJo

And...whether we may personally dislike it or not...being a "gold digger" is not extortion, or fraud, or illegal. People across many cultures have a long history of marrying for money. In some it's even considered the responsible and right thing to do to take care of your family.

Maybe she was with him for his money, maybe she wasn't. I don't know her, so I can't say. But, even if she was, that's not illegal. If he didn't want her to get more than he felt she should have, then there are contracts to ensure that. If he feels strongly about that, and didn't take that step, then that's his fault - not hers.

I think that the only reason why "gold digger" is such an epithet in our culture is that it strips the veneer off of *one* underlying pillar of marriage--it is an economic arrangement. That's not to say that two people who marry aren't in love. It's not to say that they do not genuinely feel love for one another. It is merely to say that it is simply true--and has been true until very recently--that it was in the interest of any children a woman might bear for her to be partnered to the best man she could get where best = ability to make sure that everyone eats and is safe. For all but the last, what, 100 years or so that ability has been very intimately tied up in upper-body strength which men have more of, on average, than women do for obvious reasons.

We have just convinced ourselves that this arrangement is distasteful so we have this perjorative category of gold digger. However, as JustJo rightly points out this distaste is not universal in all cultures and some cultures are very upfront about the whole thing. When my father went to my maternal grandfather to ask for permission to marry my mother (this was 1950) he originally said no because "he's too dark to have any prospects". Now, at this point my father had his B.A. and was working on his M.A. in Education--one profession that a black man *could* reliably make a middle-class living in even in the Deep South of Jim Crow. My maternal grandfather was a farmer and so had a much more agrarian culture view of marriage--was this a 'good match'? In other words, would my father be able to provide for my mother. As it turns out, of course, my grandfather was wrong--VERY wrong--and my father and mother built a very comfortable life for themselves (and he did give his blessing to their marriage).

While it may be comforting for us to imagine ourselves above and beyond the pull of nature, it would be quite remarkable if we were. We are all descended from a very long line of females who--quite unconsciously for the most part--chose to have children with the man who would best be able to provide food and protection and was most likely to stick around. Our discomfort when some modern woman does what mammalian females have done for as long as there has been mammals is about us, not about her actions.

Cheers
Aj

[Heart]

Originally Posted by JustJo

And...whether we may personally dislike it or not...being a "gold digger" is not extortion, or fraud, or illegal. People across many cultures have a long history of marrying for money. In some it's even considered the responsible and right thing to do to take care of your family.

Maybe she was with him for his money, maybe she wasn't. I don't know her, so I can't say. But, even if she was, that's not illegal. If he didn't want her to get more than he felt she should have, then there are contracts to ensure that. If he feels strongly about that, and didn't take that step, then that's his fault - not hers.

By extortion I meant threatening to release information about him, possibly false information, unless he pays up. That is illegal. If she, or anyone, does that they should be prosecuted. It still doesn't change what he's doing, nor make it okay.

I was done with Whoppi when she defended Polanski. Makes me wonder what's going on in her closet that she sticks up for abusive, racist men.

Heart

[softness]

1) WHOOPI is a good actress but is not a feminist nor a womanist and she is following in Rosie's footsteps of being too outlandish in voicing her opinions. I foresee her being removed shortly from the View

2) I have loathed Mel long before he did that Passion movie, but that movie pushed me over the edge. Anyone who uses cinema to force their own religious values on the nation pisses me off and I steer clear of him. When he left his wife, had a baby with his mistress and then when the tapes came out indicating him as abusive (note I did not say "when he became abusive" as I believe the creep has been abusive for a LONG time..he has definite control issues as indicated by forcefeeding GODisms via his Passion movie onto all of us) he pushed the envelope so far that any sane person would know Mel is a sick puppy...

3) Bronson does not see him as sick.

4) my point is made


I have absolutely no tie to nor do I approve of nor am I a friend of anyone who backs a batterer. There is a HUGE difference between writing poetry about one's own personal life experiences and writing posts commending and backing and reinforcing racism, homophobia, mysogyny and abuse. When one steps over the line, that line should become the political noose for anyone who takes a mile when offered a yard...

nuff said...

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Heart

By extortion I meant threatening to release information about him, possibly false information, unless he pays up. That is illegal. If she, or anyone, does that they should be prosecuted. It still doesn't change what he's doing, nor make it okay.

Heart

Yes, that's different. Thanks for clarifying.

And, you're right...it still doesn't justify his actions.

[AtLastHome]

This is an organization that helps combat all isms in the LGBTIQ community- maybe someone here might be interested in being Board member of COLAGE...

This is your opportunity to join COLAGE's Board of Directors during a very exciting time for the organization! In the second year of implementing our new strategic plan and in the midst of celebrating our 20th anniversary, COLAGE is looking for dynamic, passionate and active leaders to join the Board of Directors and work with the organization to take it to the next level of its development and impact.
COLAGE is the only national, youth-driven network that connects people with a lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and/or queer (LGBTQ) parent to a community of peers. Growing up knowing that our families are different can make a kid feel confused or conflicted. By connecting with others who share our experience, COLAGE helps us come to the realization that our difference is our strength. With this realization, we become leaders and advocates for the policies that matter most to our families. Based in San Francisco, COLAGE offers an integrated array of local, regional and national programs. With over 10,000 member contacts, a network of chapters across the U.S, and 20 years of expertise in youth empowerment and LGBTQ family matters, COLAGE represents and organizes the millions of people who have one or more LGBTQ parents and families.
The COLAGE Board of Directors is an intergenerational, multi-racial/multi-cultural group of dedicated volunteers that includes youth and adults with LGBTQ parents, LGBTQ parents, and allies from all over the United States. The Board convenes for in-person meetings twice annually in addition to participating in ongoing conference calls and committee meetings. The Board provides crucial guidance and oversight for COLAGE and its programs, performs important fundraising and governance duties, and supports the staff of COLAGE in their ongoing work.

To ensure that all organizational decisions and actions are guided by and reflect COLAGE's diverse membership and constituencies, we are currently seeking people who have one or more of the following backgrounds or identities to apply:
* Do you have one or more transgender parent(s) and/or identify as trans?
* Are you a person of color and active in communities of color?
* Are you from/Do you reside in the Midwest or a rural area of the U.S.? Or from the cities of NYC, DC, or LA?
* Are you male-identified?
* Are you between the ages of 15 and 17?
COLAGE especially seeks dedicated board members with skills and experience in:
* Public relations, marketing, media communications, and e-communications;
* Financial management, investment & oversight or non-profit accounting;
* Fundraising, especially event planning and individual donor program development
BASIC REQUIREMENTS:

* Uphold COLAGE's mission, vision, values, and methodology
* Volunteer average of 10-20 hours per month (some months more, some less)
* Attend in-person three-day meetings twice per year. Spring meeting is in SF Bay Area, Fall meeting location rotates. This Fall the meeting will be in Washington D.C. over the weekend of October 10-12, 2010.
* Participate in all-board conference calls every 6 weeks
* Actively participate on at least one board committee, including monthly calls
* Be an ambassador for COLAGE and LGBTQ families, including being publicly 'out' about your family, in your community


TO APPLY:

Please submit completed COLAGE Board Application Form to the COLAGE Board Development Committee (nominations@colage.org).

When your application is received, you will be notified and may be asked to participate in an interview with one of our current Board members or Executive Director.

QUESTIONS?

Email our Board Development Committee at nominations@colage.org or contact
Beth Teper, Executive Director at 415-861-5437, director@colage.org.





http://www.colage.org/2010/07/colage...d_members.html

[softness]

COLAGE also offers college scholarships to kids of LGBTetc parents...

[betenoire]

I was having a giggle this morning wondering how many threads in this community would pass the Bechdel test.

But then I realised something: That's not funny. Cuz, you know....I bet there aren't many.



(by the way, and it's annoying that I even have to say this, but to anybody who wants to do a drive-by and accuse me of thinking bad thoughts about men: kindly slide down a razorblade and land in a pool of iodine.)

[AtLastHome]

Originally Posted by softness

COLAGE also offers college scholarships to kids of LGBTetc parents...

It certainly does!