Misogyny/Sexism in Butch/Femme & LGBTQ communities

[SuperFemme]

Oh dear! Inter-Gay Dynamics, Misogyny, and Queer Community.

Posted on November 26, 2008 by timeenoughatlast

Oh dear. I only really knew Richard Rodriguez through his autobiographical essay (which I’ve taught), “Working.” I had no idea he was family. Nevertheless, came across this in Salon today. Go ahead, read it, come back, and follow up.

Although there’s a lot here to chew on, I want to look at one quote from Rodriguez: “we need to identify the relationship between feminism and homosexuality.”

I have experienced that relationship, and it’s really not pretty. There is, in the gay community I came of age in, a subtle current of misogyny among gay men. Patriarchy and male privilege still exists, although obviously isn’t defined biologically.

It comes down to a butch (or masc)/ fem (or femme) dynamic.

When you look at online ads, there is a much more definite need to identify oneself as “masc” or “only looking for masc[emphasis most of these ads, not mine] guys.” There is even a hierarchy in gay communities that the top is the dominant figure in the relationship, and the bottom, the submissive.

The penetrator is in charge of the relationship, while the passive partner is subservient to the top (And here, by dominant and submissive, I don’t mean abusive or “dominating.” Just terms). Now, we know just from looking at heterosexual relationships, that this is only true 50% of the time. Even if the woman “wears the pants,” or if it truly is a “50/50″ partnership, casual and public perception tends to favor the male partner (if in no other form, look how many women, even in a “50/50″ or “woman dominated” relationship, still take their husband’s names in marriage, as do any children).

Even in bars and among gay social circles, there was (in my day) a- “fear” isn’t the right word- reluctance, perhaps- to identify as “bottom” or “fem.” ”Versatile” (which, if you ask me, basically means one is biting the pillow after two drinks- and the drinks? Diet cokes.) was the much more socially acceptable answer. Even though there wasn’t open discrimination in the community, there are still snickers- friendly, teasing, and gentle remarks- nothing openly hateful- but still, even that those comments exist suggest an undercurrent of patriarchy.

And I can tell you, in my experience, in the 90s, this wasn’t imagined. I lived through it in metro Atlanta- albeit I was never a circuit queen (unless Backstreet- may she rest in peace- counts), but I spent many nights at bars, many nights with gay friends, etc. (Sadly, all of them have moved away and I’m the lone sane homo in my part of the world.) and was part of the misogynistic dynamic myself.

For more proof, watch any episode of the American version of Queer as Folk (I’m not knocking the show, by the way- LOVED it. Trashy and all. Hot boys helped.)- just the dialogue, again, joking, loving- plays into this subtle dynamic.

I had a former student, queer, who told me last month that he had experienced no such dynamic, and that in his interactions, the jokes didn’t exist, and that this dynamic as I explained it to him (and repeated here, just above) was outdated. I have been out of the youth scene long enough to not know whether or not this is universally true. Granted, the young man who explained this to me was a Log Cabin Republican (although he claims to be a Libertarian) and Sarah Palin supporter, so it’s possible that he’s clueless and/or batshit crazy.

Anyway, still true or not, my opinion is that the gay rights movement and feminism may indeed be linked, forces in oppression against the world at large, but once you limit yourself to the microcosm of the gay community, the top, at least jokingly, comes out on top every time. (Pun intended.)
Oh, and don’t even get me started on inter-community racism and race dynamics.

http://timeenoughatlast.wordpress.co...eer-community/

[HowSoonIsNow]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

My impression is..This thread, was meant to be about Misogyny/Sexism within B/F and the LGBTQ Communities...A slightly different thing, than those topics around the world..

OOps. I accidentally placed it in the wrong thread. Thanks, I'll ask Linus to move it.

[AtLastHome]

Rest in peace, LieslKate. We lost this member recently to a heart attack. There is a thread for members to honor her.

[quote=LieslKate;174426][QUOTE=Daryn;116485]
And I do know the history of bad blood between gay guys and lesbians. It's sad because both groups have always been in this together and yet both groups judge each other and lump each other into stereotypical boxes.

I just extracted this one tiny point to clarify that not only had there been bad blood during the early years of Gay Liberation (and pre-Stonewall) the communities were quite separate and Lesbians excluded from almost all political activies, oganizations and social functions... On the Womens Liberation front Lesbians were often excluded or asked to not appear to be too Lesbian because str8 women did not want to be possibly seen as Lesbian and have the movement branded as Lesbian thing...

It's only in very recent history, post GRID, AIDS and HIV, that the Gay and Lesbian communities have formed some cohesivness but only in major centres... the communities still seem to be fragmented and separate in a lot of areas...

There are many points of referrence to atest to this in various Lesbian and Gay history and archives in the US, Canada and abroad... still wish it wasn't so.