08-12-2010, 09:07 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
. Preferred Pronoun?:
. Relationship Status:
. Join Date: May 2010
Location: .
Posts: 2,199
Thanks: 1,527
Thanked 7,762 Times in 1,881 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853 |
I'm not on T.
I've not had top surgery. I have no intention of going on T. Currently, I am not going to have top surgery. Regarding this, I have a plan that is a possibility. Healthwise, and emotionally, my plan fits my needs better. That being said. I am a transguy. I don't need surgery or T to know this. I just am. Someday, my outside will present more as my insides do. Hopefully within the next year. I'm not FtM necessarily, I'm not male. I'm an unique person that embodies another third gender. |
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DamonK For This Useful Post: |
08-12-2010, 10:07 PM | #22 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
I have read these types of threads over and over again, and have written, erased, written, erased so many times I lost count. I always talk myself out of expressing my opinion for fear of stirring the pot - I don't do drama and I try not to step on other people's toes. But I do have some very strong opinions on this topic and there are things that bother me immensly.
First of all - I stopped using the term Transgender a long time ago, and now only use Transexual if I need to use a label. Transgender is such a huge umbrella and people under it fall all over the gender spectrum - Transexual is pretty black and white. I was born female, and now have gone through the proper channels and jumped through the hoops to become physically and legally a man. The thing that irks me the most, is being referred to as a Butch. I am not a Butch - I am a man. I looked up the official definition of Butch (not that I don't know what it is, but just for arguments sake) and it is as follows: butch /bʊtʃ/ [booch] –noun 1. butch haircut. 2. Slang . a lesbian, esp. one notably masculine in manner or appearance. –adjective 3. Slang . a. (of a girl or woman) having traits of personality, dress, behavior, or appearance usually associated with males. b. (of a male) decidedly or exaggeratedly masculine in manner or appearance. If a Lesbian is a Butch, then a Butch is a woman. No? I am a man, therefore, to be called a Butch is redundant. This happens a lot and I just don't like it and I know I'm not alone. I have nothing against Butches - some of my best friends are Butches. What ever happened to a woman being as masculine and Butch as she wants to be without feeling the need to deny her gender? I love to see a strong, uber masculine Butch who is still proud to be a woman. I think that's damn HOT. I feel like young Butches have been made to feel like if they go too far, and are TOO butch, then they must want to be men. I'm not a man because of the clothes I wear, or the way I walk, or the way I wear my hair. I am a man because since I was 4 years old I knew I was, and I did whatever it took to become that legally and to the rest of the world. I don't even know if I'm making sense or getting my point across - but I am open to discussion and would like to break this down more. Thoughts? |
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 02:37 AM | #23 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
FTM Preferred Pronoun?:
He Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 1,590
Thanks: 2,247
Thanked 1,680 Times in 742 Posts
Rep Power: 13485854 |
Quote:
Ditto..... |
|
08-13-2010, 09:09 AM | #24 | |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transmasculine/Non-Binary Preferred Pronoun?:
Hy (Pronounced He) Relationship Status:
Married Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,589
Thanks: 21,132
Thanked 8,162 Times in 2,006 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857 |
Quote:
Thank you for speaking up and stating what is true for you. I sincerely mean this. I would like to hear more of what you have to say. I am aware that "transitioning" may have similarities for many but there too are many varied experiences and identities.
__________________
Sometimes you don't realize your own strength until you come face to face with your greatest weakness. - Susan Gale |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Greyson For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 10:24 AM | #25 |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,757 Times in 4,468 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
Thank you for this. I am proud to be a butch, proud to be a woman and proud to be a lesbian.
|
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to BullDog For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 10:25 AM | #26 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Queer Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 475
Thanks: 396
Thanked 920 Times in 225 Posts
Rep Power: 8450333 |
This is how I personally break it down...
masculine/feminine = characteristics male/female = gender man/woman = sex So to me the Male ID'd Butch is a combination of the three. sex (woman) + characteristics (male) = Male ID'd Butch (woman) In the end, the sex stays the same and the characteristics are usually very male. With an FTM transsexual the sex generally changes to MAN in the end and their characteristics are generally a more equal mix of male & female. It has been my experience with many of the FTM transsexuals I have met that after transition they are more open to explore their feminine characteristics because their gender & sex are in sync, male + man. I often wonder when I see male ID'd butches on the site if that is how they present themselves to their family, their jobs, and the public in general outside of the forums. A male ID'd butch is still physically and usually legally a woman and therefore has the option of having one foot in both worlds. Whereas my husband, who has undergone SRS and is on hormone therapy can no longer present as a woman anywhere, and that is perfectly okay with him. That is how it is suppose to be, for him. I am not trying to step on any toes here, I'm just expressing how I try to keep something straight in mind that has a tendency to be very convoluted.
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Suess http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...star_green.gif |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Stacy For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 10:34 AM | #27 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
Thanks Grey... I'm not trying to bash anyone's identity - I believe so strongly in the freedom to express oneself. I just think that oftentimes, the lines get blurred between Transgender and Transexual, Butch and FTM, etc. and the term FTM, IMHO is often misused. FTM - female TO male, refers to someone who has transitioned (or is transitioning) from being female to being male. I think this gets used too loosely at times to refer to someone who might present as male but is not transitioning, and I think this causes a lot of confusion - and incorrect assumptions by society. I also think the word Butch is used too loosely, and this not only hurts those Transmen who don't identify as such, but the Butch community as well. The Butch experience is vastly different than the FTM experience.
|
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 10:36 AM | #28 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
|
08-13-2010, 02:15 PM | #29 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?:
Your Grace Relationship Status:
I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In a gauze of mystery
Posts: 1,776
Thanks: 2,426
Thanked 9,723 Times in 1,612 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852 |
Quote:
see this is where is get irrationally annoyed and confused. it's totally my own issue. But growing up with biology and anthropology being spoon fed at an early age, it's masculine/feminine = characteristics man/woman = (two of many) genders male/female = (two of *many*) sexes so when people say "male ID'd butch", I go "huh?? but Male is a sex, not a gender. I don't understand what you are saying. If you said you were transsexual, rather than transgender, I'd get it. It's why there are male horses, not man horses." So it's a massive stumbling block I can't seem to get past in comprehending. I went away from the web for six-8 months and came back and everyone was using it, where as before, they called themselves TG butches. Which I understood. It's not really anyone else's problem, granted, it seems to be only me that doesn't understand. I have tried. People have tried explaining. But I keep ramming up against "but... but... that's transgender... not transsexual..." And it's not my place to tell people who they are. But the word means something entirely different to me and sometimes it rubs me the wrong way Not in any majour way, mind you. I think it's just something my brain won't switch on. TG butch = what some other people call male ID'd butch. It's a Dictionary problem I can't seem to change. I still see them as who they are, mind you. I suppose it's like inki and I arguing "that's green" "no it's turquoise" this can go on for hours. she means pale green with a smidgen of blue in it (thus green) I see turquoise. To her, Turquoise has more blue in it. I'm also suspecting since people see colours differently, that perhaps I see more blue in things than she does. we are saying practically the same thing but our perceptual semantics get in the way. |
|
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to imperfect_cupcake For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 05:05 PM | #30 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Queer Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 475
Thanks: 396
Thanked 920 Times in 225 Posts
Rep Power: 8450333 |
Didn't want to irrationally annoy anyone, as I stated, it is how "I personally break it down".
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Suess http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...star_green.gif |
The Following User Says Thank You to Stacy For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 05:16 PM | #31 |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?:
She. Relationship Status:
Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 4,933
Thanks: 2,309
Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
what if a person is transgender but disputes the term FTM?
because to this person they were never female, always male... so transitioning away from something they never were to something they've always been seems to be a sticking point |
08-13-2010, 05:33 PM | #32 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
Well while it may not be something they want to admit or face, or own, they WERE born biologically female. Period. I am as manly as the next man, and I can own the fact that while my mind & spirit were ALWAYS male, I was born into a BIOLOGICALLY female body. They can dispute whatever they want to - but if they were born into a body that was biologically female, then one MUST transition to male - unless that person chooses not to transition, then they are choosing to remain biologically female regardless of what pronouns they choose.
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 05:50 PM | #33 | |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?:
She. Relationship Status:
Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 4,933
Thanks: 2,309
Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
I think at the end of the day, people have their own personal truths, and those truths may not align with with the next guys.... I am not trying to argue, I am just taking into account some things I've discussed with transguys at our local meetings...because it is super important to me to actively listen to other humans truths. thanks for yours. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperFemme For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 06:34 PM | #34 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Trans Preferred Pronoun?:
He Relationship Status:
Partnered Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SouthTexas - On the Gulf
Posts: 694
Thanks: 210
Thanked 430 Times in 162 Posts
Rep Power: 505007 |
Quote:
Although there are many FTMs who have had both top surgery and the full removal of all reproductive organs and so yearly mammograms and pap smears are no longer needed. But to the larger point, I think we are getting into the territory of what constitutes male and female. Texas has followed this logic to its end point and recognizes no form of transition whatsover. Texas states that you are what you are born as. A very rigid way of thinking. When we try to put everything back into the box, so to speak, we end up with Texas' law. They take it to the chromosome level. Their argument is that chromosomes can't be changed and therefore "biology" = chromosomes. So none of us can ever be "biologically" male under this definition. Texas being Texas they also throw "God" in there somewhere, too. Rufus |
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Rufusboi For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 06:58 PM | #35 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Butch/Boi Preferred Pronoun?:
Anything but it... Relationship Status:
Hide n go Seek Join Date: May 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 123
Thanks: 338
Thanked 223 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 1464162 |
I've read the thread here with great interest and intrigue and wonder about
the labels we are trying to a fix to one another...while I understand that labels do have a place in life (labels and definitions bring understanding and through understanding it can lead towards a path of acceptance), how a person identifies is going to be defined by their personal experiences and their own individual responses to those experiences. For me personally...before I came out (almost seems like a whole other life I lead before this one), I was straight, married and had a kid. I wouldn't change that experience for any reason because of the child I have now. Parts of me will forever be female and I am ok with that. I don't identify as butch...more of a boi. I don't identify as male, don't wish to be a man, although I am predominantly masculine. I've considered top surgery not because I want to be manly but more because I don't associate with that part of my female anatomy. It would be the only thing I would want to change (as a child when my breasts started to grow I was markedly upset...you can't catch footballs quite the same way ever again...on the flip side...I have great hands now :P ). So I think the gender identity is evolving...particularly due to boards like this and open discussions...I know I don't fit into the female...I don't fit into the male either....I am just simply....me. |
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to RavynTuqiri For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 07:05 PM | #36 |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Human Preferred Pronoun?:
He Relationship Status:
Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Where I want to be
Posts: 8,155
Thanks: 47,491
Thanked 29,291 Times in 6,640 Posts
Rep Power: 21474859 |
On a personal aside. I don't assign any identity to another person, that is for them to decide, just as (you generic) have no place assigning my identity.
I think once we start accepting folks on how "they" wish to be called, the sooner the gender labeling will fade into history/herstory. Be who you are, and allow others the same consideration.
__________________
"Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them".
~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee) |
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Corkey For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 07:55 PM | #37 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
Quote:
|
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: |
08-13-2010, 08:01 PM | #38 |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?:
She. Relationship Status:
Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 4,933
Thanks: 2,309
Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
I understand. Thank you for talking w/me about it.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperFemme For This Useful Post: |
08-14-2010, 03:30 AM | #39 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?:
Your Grace Relationship Status:
I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In a gauze of mystery
Posts: 1,776
Thanks: 2,426
Thanked 9,723 Times in 1,612 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852 |
Quote:
it's not personal . more than just you uses male = gender instead of sex. it's like how some people get irrationally annoyed from the misuse of punctuation. Like I said, it's my problem. ETA: I'm not saying sexual transitioning isn't "real" - as far as I'm concerned it's "real" before it occurs anyway. my only stumbling block is pedantic: male is sex, man is gender. It's why I can have multiple gender (woman, femme, gender neutral) that I inhabit in my female (sex) body. sexual transitioning, is not gender transitioning in my brain. I know that sounds weird. But someone who sexually transition is a man turning into a male. if that makes sense. Or like some of my friends a _____ (however they classify their gender) gender transitioning to male. Perhaps my brain works differently. that said I do know transgender and transsexual individuals. to be more confusing. I am by NO MEANS speaking for anyone. I am only talking about why the confusion between sex and gender drives me a bit bonkers and I get very confused as to how people use them. |
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to imperfect_cupcake For This Useful Post: |
08-14-2010, 04:04 AM | #40 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
as ME Relationship Status:
I don't need no stinking status. Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: somewhere you're not.....
Posts: 1,808
Thanks: 1,961
Thanked 1,691 Times in 694 Posts
Rep Power: 12813868 |
Quote:
__________________
Nothing more, Nothing less, I'm Just Being Me |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to JustBeingMe For This Useful Post: |
|
|