06-28-2011, 01:29 PM | #41 |
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Years ago, before I started spending way too much time here, my ex and I made a concious choice not to use gendered pronouns whenever possible.
There were plenty of times when people went 'Hunh'? Or we sounded crazy, diving all over ourselves to communicate without using 'she' and 'he' and 'her' and 'him' but Our conciousness about how we used gendered pronopuns changed me and the way I thought. I think we used to talk more about biology, gender and sexual orientation here. The expression 'false duality of gender constructs' means that it is false to talk only about two gender constructs, and imbedded in that belief is the idea that gender is a social construct, as distinct from biology. |
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06-28-2011, 01:30 PM | #42 |
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It is not an experiment, it's a life choice and a life ambition, a way of living. Not just for these kids then and there, but also for their parents.
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06-28-2011, 01:32 PM | #43 |
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See...I don't see this program as an "experiment" per say. I see it as a vast cultural difference between how Americans approach early childhood education versus how Sweden does. No Child Left Behind is a social construct - manufactured by a legislation driven by capitalistic neoliberals. (holy crap!)
And here is where my socialist undies get in a bunch. Sweden isn't out to propagate any sort of agenda. Rather, they are investing in their future by restructuring the social order of things. I think this is a marvelous step towards neutralizing the dominant gender binary that has suffocated America for eons. |
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06-28-2011, 01:34 PM | #44 | |
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06-28-2011, 01:35 PM | #45 |
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Though there was support from both Democrats and Rupublicans, NCLB was passed during the Bush Adminstration in 2001.
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06-28-2011, 01:39 PM | #46 |
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"Always question the assumptions."
I have not seen one pre-school--now, granted I've only spent time in maybe 8-10 (and only on the coasts so yes, more progressive)--that delineates the sexes, the play, the toys in classroom set-up or on-going direction.
Of course, there are promoting or limiting gender-directed behaviors that the caregivers have and that could be modified through outside observation and feedback. Overall, it has seemed to me that there is a natural division in interest that the kids display, along gender lines. But... what exactly IS the problem when little girls choose the dolls and such and little boys choose the trains and such? I live in a very progressive city (Portland, ME), and I think it's fairly well entrenched here that if "Biff" wants to wear a tutu to the museum play, he gets to. (real-life example) If "Nell" is into her trucks, no one worries a thing about it. What is happening in progressive classrooms like that that is undesirable or unnatural that could be done better? What change being engineered is desired, exactly?
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06-28-2011, 01:40 PM | #47 | ||
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"War-like games" aren't the problem - except when they are. The problem is gendering those games. Some of the fiercest warriors in history have been female. We tend to burn such women at the stake, stone them to death, or impose regulations like the US Ground Combat Exclusion Policy on them. |
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06-28-2011, 01:41 PM | #48 | |
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So something you can't even articulate you want implimented in a pre-schools curriculum? Yes, imagine...
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06-28-2011, 01:43 PM | #49 | |
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I also have a copy of a U.S. government report from the 1930s that says gay men make better soldiers. Clearly, that one wasn't widely circulated.
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06-28-2011, 01:44 PM | #50 |
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06-28-2011, 01:51 PM | #51 | |
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I'll have to reread. I did not get that this was a long-established model, extending out to more levels of society. I thought it was a new program that was nowhere as developed as you describe it.
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06-28-2011, 01:58 PM | #52 | ||
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I don't think war-like games are the problem either. But to acknowledge the historical infelicities and get back into now, we can start making female toy soldiers. There. Nice, practical, sensible move that can be implemented now. Not what we imagine... or what we want but can't articulate... or what we implement in children's education without clearly defined and concrete details, and without defining our assumptions.
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06-28-2011, 02:05 PM | #53 | ||||
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You and I may be lucky that our kids fit sex-based, gender expectations. Not all parents and kids are so lucky.... Quote:
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As ScandalAndy suggested, that's a whole other thread. |
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06-28-2011, 02:08 PM | #54 |
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It's not the toys or the pronouns, it's the value placed upon them... It's not whether a little girl/boy plays with dolls/trucks, it's whether playing with a doll is as valuable and meaningful as playing with a truck, it's whether wearing glitter is as important as wearing a sherrif's badge. It's not war-games OR playing house, it's both (and neither for those who want to draw). It's not male or female essentialism or constructionism, it's whether feminine/masculine and every permutation/blend of these energies/performances are equally valued and necessary to society.
And I don't really have an opinion about the school in Sweden, as long as the kids are safe, happy, have healthy snacks and take naps. Heart ETA: When a little boy plays with dolls and wears a tutu it causes more angst then when a little girl plays with trucks or wears a tie, because "girl things" are less valued, have less status and currency, than "boy things." That's why sissies are more closely policed than tomboys. So I guess my question is: does the Swedish school experiment have an impact on the valuing of gender tropes? Last edited by Heart; 06-28-2011 at 02:23 PM. |
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06-28-2011, 02:24 PM | #55 | |
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But yes, definitely extending to more levels, if not of society so of these peoples lives. And with this being paid for by the government and supported by the national curriculum for schools and pre-school... Our government doesn't pay for experiments.
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06-28-2011, 02:27 PM | #56 | ||
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Western culture consumes incremental progress and commodifies it, thereby taking the soul out of it, leaving things pretty much as they were before. (This is a whole other thread, too.) Heathcare was a progressive break through until the insurance companies turned it into a profit making enterprise that favored some while excluding far too many. "Progress" is not always progress for all. Quote:
I mean no insult, but it's going to take hella more than female toy soldiers. |
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06-28-2011, 02:35 PM | #57 |
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I am quite new to this site and maybe my opinion will not mean anything at all but, with that being said, I teach 2nd grade and I have to say that I would not agree with having a gender neutral classroom. I think that we as a society are putting too much emphasis on being *politically correct* in our wording and actions and have forgotten how to just live and enjoy life. Children, by nature, just as adults, are curious and I think it causes many more issues than solves. Of course this is just my opinion.
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06-28-2011, 02:44 PM | #58 | |
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06-28-2011, 02:45 PM | #59 | |
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06-28-2011, 02:51 PM | #60 |
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