Religious Holidays in Public Schools

[Corkey]

From what I have gleaned from this thread is that we are talking about public primary and high school kids being exposed to religion, during their school year, what the names of those holidays are, and how others of differing religions are to be exposed to the primary religion taught, which is christianity. Not college or any other setting. As such my comments stand on the facts of my arguments. I do not want to see my tax dollars being spent on anything pertaining to any particular religion, Period.

[Corkey]

My apologies to the thread starter. I realize you are after poll data. I am speaking from my life experiences.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Corkey

From what I have gleaned from this thread is that we are talking about public primary and high school kids being exposed to religion, during their school year, what the names of those holidays are, and how others of differing religions are to be exposed to the primary religion taught, which is christianity. Not college or any other setting. As such my comments stand on the facts of my arguments. I do not want to see my tax dollars being spent on anything pertaining to any particular religion, Period.

If we don't teach about other religions in public schools, how will the kids ever find out? There are plenty of kids graduating from public high school today who think Islam is about devil worship because that is what they are taught at home. Most probably have no idea that Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same God.

I do think curriculum can be produced that talks about the principles, stories and rituals, without be insulting or offensive. I do think curriculum can be neutral in how it talks about religions. I think it should also include aethism.

But to do that would require actually wanting to move our evolution, as humans, forward. I'm certainly not seeing signs of that in Western culture, as unfettered capitalism runs amok and ruins each of us and the planet we live on

[julieisafemme]

In theory this sounds like a good idea. In practice, as a Jew, I would be concerned that a teacher's biases or lack of knowledge regarding a particular faith might make things worse. Religion is a very personal thing. I don't want anyone instructing my child about any religion in a formal classroom setting unless I know what is being taught.

If such a class were taught it would make the most sense for it to be in high school and as a comparative religion overview. Also I think it would be important to include the concept of spirituality that is not connected to any organized religion or even G-d for that matter.

Originally Posted by Toughy

If we don't teach about other religions in public schools, how will the kids ever find out? There are plenty of kids graduating from public high school today who think Islam is about devil worship because that is what they are taught at home. Most probably have no idea that Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same God.

I do think curriculum can be produced that talks about the principles, stories and rituals, without be insulting or offensive. I do think curriculum can be neutral in how it talks about religions. I think it should also include aethism.

But to do that would require actually wanting to move our evolution, as humans, forward. I'm certainly not seeing signs of that in Western culture, as unfettered capitalism runs amok and ruins each of us and the planet we live on

[Manul]

Originally Posted by Corkey

From what I have gleaned from this thread is that we are talking about public primary and high school kids being exposed to religion, during their school year, what the names of those holidays are, and how others of differing religions are to be exposed to the primary religion taught, which is christianity. Not college or any other setting. As such my comments stand on the facts of my arguments. I do not want to see my tax dollars being spent on anything pertaining to any particular religion, Period.

Originally Posted by Corkey

My apologies to the thread starter. I realize you are after poll data. I am speaking from my life experiences.

LOL, I think the OP was:

what do you think about adding holidays to school calendars?
I think we need to be more inclusive and add other religious holidays
I think we need to pare it down, we have too many
I think we need to take all religious holidays out of public school calendars
I don't care

But as in any typical conversation, we touched on several various issues in reference to religion. I think the OP specifically referenced the inclusion of Muslim holidays into the school system in cities that have a higher population of those religious beliefs (Muslims seek to add holidays on NY school calendar).

I find it odd that in the evolution and application of federal holidays which many schools also use as a basis for their holidays there is no explanation as to why Christmas is a federal holiday as opposed to explanations for other holidays such as Thanksgiving, Columbus Day and the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. Is it just understood or arrogance?

If we are to be truly American, shouldn't we include Muslim Americans and their holidays?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Toughy

If we don't teach about other religions in public schools, how will the kids ever find out? There are plenty of kids graduating from public high school today who think Islam is about devil worship because that is what they are taught at home. Most probably have no idea that Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same God.

I do think curriculum can be produced that talks about the principles, stories and rituals, without be insulting or offensive. I do think curriculum can be neutral in how it talks about religions. I think it should also include aethism.

But to do that would require actually wanting to move our evolution, as humans, forward. I'm certainly not seeing signs of that in Western culture, as unfettered capitalism runs amok and ruins each of us and the planet we live on

Because of the Constitution I don't agree that school kids need to learn about any religion, any of them on my tax payer dollar. If they would like to learn about other cultures religions, they have plenty of options. Internet, public libraries, actually going to another cultures place of worship, talking...there's a novel idea..talking to people who aren't like them. It needn't be done with tax dollars. Yes atheism needs to be considered, cause not everyone believes in a God/Goddess, Supreme Being or any other Deity.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Manul

If we are to be truly American, shouldn't we include Muslim Americans and their holidays?

I could ask the same question about Jewish holidays and Hindu days and Buddhist and Pagan (although many are really close to Christian days cuz the Christians ripped them off from us Pagans) and any other religion practiced by any American.

Why is Islam any different than any of the above?

My objection is to ANY religion taught in primary or high school, it doesn't belong there. Separation of church and state, period.

I'm not so sure the Constitution says religion cannot be taught in public schools. The 'religion' part of the 1st Amendment is about establishing a government sanctioned religion and giving the people the right to freely exercise their own religion. (Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.)

There is a line at the end of Article 6 that says there shall be No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. Several states actually do have a religious test even though it is clearly prohibited in the Constitution.

[Manul]

Originally Posted by Manul

If we are to be truly American, shouldn't we include Muslim Americans and their holidays?

Originally Posted by Toughy

I could ask the same question about Jewish holidays and Hindu days and Buddhist and Pagan (although many are really close to Christian days cuz the Christians ripped them off from us Pagans) and any other religion practiced by any American.

Why is Islam any different than any of the above?



I'm not so sure the Constitution says religion cannot be taught in public schools. The 'religion' part of the 1st Amendment is about establishing a government sanctioned religion and giving the people the right to freely exercise their own religion. (Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.)

There is a line at the end of Article 6 that says there shall be No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. Several states actually do have a religious test even though it is clearly prohibited in the Constitution.

I absolutely agree with you in your sentiment expressed why is Islam any different from the above list you posted. It would seem to me the establishment of Muslim school holidays would certainly open precedence for other religions to claim their due holidays.

My personal belief is the government has already sanctioned religion in the schools because Christmas is a school holiday whether it's called Christmas or Winter break.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...l_Holidays.pdf

I'll refer you back to this:

I find it odd that in the evolution and application of federal holidays which many schools also use as a basis for their holidays there is no explanation as to why Christmas is a federal holiday as opposed to explanations for other holidays such as Thanksgiving, Columbus Day and the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. Is it just understood or arrogance?

[Toughy]

laughin........hell, we can't even come around to having Jewish holidays and Israel is supposed to be our great ally and friend.............and we probably have way more Jewish (religion) folks than Muslims........

It's all kind of stupid..........we should be in school year round.........we are no longer an agrarian/farming nation that needed all hands in the fields.........that's how the school calendar was originally set.........the kids needed to be on the farm working.............and as some have suggested with 1-2-3-4 week breaks scattered throughout the year.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Toughy

laughin........hell, we can't even come around to having Jewish holidays and Israel is supposed to be our great ally and friend.............and we probably have way more Jewish (religion) folks than Muslims........

It's all kind of stupid..........we should be in school year round.........we are no longer an agrarian/farming nation that needed all hands in the fields.........that's how the school calendar was originally set.........the kids needed to be on the farm working.............and as some have suggested with 1-2-3-4 week breaks scattered throughout the year.

The kids in some of the counties here go 9 weeks on 3 weeks off. Seems to work well.

I do agree that Christmas should not be a Federal Holiday.

[Manul]

Originally Posted by Toughy

laughin........hell, we can't even come around to having Jewish holidays and Israel is supposed to be our great ally and friend.............and we probably have way more Jewish (religion) folks than Muslims........

It's all kind of stupid..........we should be in school year round.........we are no longer an agrarian/farming nation that needed all hands in the fields.........that's how the school calendar was originally set.........the kids needed to be on the farm working.............and as some have suggested with 1-2-3-4 week breaks scattered throughout the year.

I agree children/students should be in school/learning year round.