Attraction = physical, mental, emotional...

[SassyLeo]

This weekend, my sweetie and I were talking about attraction.

On Friday night we had gone out to a local queer event and both of us had dressed up. If you were to see us together, I think most would immediately identify us as a butch-femme couple in the stereotypical appearance – I am feminine and she is more masculine. However she does not identify as butch. She is quite passionate about NOT labeling herself.

Again, I know not all of us fit or appear in the f/m roles…but I am speaking more broadly.

So she said to me the next day “You looked so pretty last night”. And of course it felt wonderful to hear that. I said thank you…she smiled and said “I looked pretty too” We kind of laughed about it and then I said, “Well, yes, however that is not the word I would have used to describe what I thought.” She said with her eyebrow cocked, “…are you thinking of a masculine word?” (which is kind of triggering for her) And I said, “Well, I was thinking more like cute, adorable, sexy…” She liked those

So we started talking about what attracted us to each other. We met sort of online (through LJ-thanks Lips!) and exchanged some emails and read each others LJ before meeting. When I first saw her waiting outside the restaurant, I thought she was really cute, but honestly was just trying to make new friends since moving to PDX. She asked if I would be attracted to her if she appeared more feminine…and I said, probably not. Not that I would not think she was an attractive person, but I am traditionally more attracted to female bodied/identifying but not feminine appearing women. She, on the other hand, has dated all over the map…and is one of the only people I truly know who does not base her attraction in any way by their appearance. At least this is how she sees it.

One time I told her many of the things I loved about her (not appearance based) and the added bonus was that she was very cute. She said her added bonus (of me) was that I was hygienically correct

So I got to thinking. Would I have been attracted to her if she was more feminine appearing? At one time, she had really long died blonde hair. She has always dressed in mostly men’s clothes (at least the past 10-15 years or so) and had short hair for the last 7 or 8. But her hair varies, sometimes shorter/longer. How much of my interest initially, was solely based in her more masculine appearance? I got to know her and liked so much more, obviously… but if she looked more feminine would I have even thought about dating her? And missed out on knowing and loving her? Am I shallow for having some of my initial attracted based on her appearance? I struggle so much with not wanting to take part in the f/m stereotype…but am I doing just that?

I’d love to hear your ideas, thoughts, experiences…

[Enchantress]

Thank you for bringing this subject up. I will be back when I have a bit of time to share my thoughts as well...

[Jett]

Hey you *s*

I totally get what you're saying here and I don't believe it's shallow at all to know what we like and trying to act with that in mind. Physical attraction is a natural part of over-all attractions and I don't think we have a lot of choice what makes out heart go boom.

I'm attracted to female/feminine cues/markers in many different forms and incarnations, but yeah there has to be some outward fem/ factor to heighten my attraction to the next level.

Good thread...

Metro

[Blade]

I agree with Metropolis, I don't think we have a real choice in what trips our trigger. Physical attraction is what normally draws us together in real time. I'm certain there are those who really don't care what someone looks like, but I think those are really few and far between. We know what we are each interested in or a certain way we expect our potential partner to look. Wonder how many of us have "fallen" in love online or over the phone and met someone and ummm this is not what I expected but still had feelings for the person, even though they didn't look like you thought or would have liked for them to look. I know I have.

I like a feminine femme, who doesn't mind getting her fingernails dirty from time to time. However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time. Great thread by the way

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Hey you *s*

I totally get what you're saying here and I don't believe it's shallow at all to know what we like and trying to act with that in mind. Physical attraction is a natural part of over-all attractions and I don't think we have a lot of choice what makes out heart go boom.

I'm attracted to female/feminine cues/markers in many different forms and incarnations, but yeah there has to be some outward fem/ factor to heighten my attraction to the next level.

Good thread...

Metro

Thanks Met. I love the "heart go boom"

So, I am curious...what do you see as the fem/factor for you?

Originally Posted by Blade

I agree with Metropolis, I don't think we have a real choice in what trips our trigger. Physical attraction is what normally draws us together in real time. I'm certain there are those who really don't care what someone looks like, but I think those are really few and far between. We know what we are each interested in or a certain way we expect our potential partner to look. Wonder how many of us have "fallen" in love online or over the phone and met someone and ummm this is not what I expected but still had feelings for the person, even though they didn't look like you thought or would have liked for them to look. I know I have.

I like a feminine femme, who doesn't mind getting her fingernails dirty from time to time. However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time. Great thread by the way

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm curious to hear more about this...:However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time."

Do you tend to attract less feminine women? Do you think it is energy driven?

[Blade]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

[B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]
Thanks for the feedback!

I'm curious to hear more about this...:However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time."

Do you tend to attract less feminine women? Do you think it is energy driven?

Oh no they are seemingly more high femme, frilly lacey types. Which I love also but the ones I've been with seem to be afraid of getting their fingernails dirty or God forbid broken. LOL I think a woman can be just a sexy and feminine in a pair of jeans and boots with horse crap on them as she can be in fishnets and high heels. And I'd actually be more attracted to a femme if I saw her in jeans and boots for the first time I saw a pic of her than in fishnets and high heels. urrr ummm I think I would

I don't know if it is energy driven or what drives it but it drives me crazy LOL

[NJFemmie]

I tend to believe that the eyes tell us what to love .. but the heart tells us who to love. (If that makes sense).

Coming from someone who has had relationships "all over the map" to exclusively b/f relationships, and is currently in a long term relationship with someone who does not identify as butch (or femme for that matter) - I think it really all comes down to how a person flips that switch for you.

She would often ask me what attracted me to Her, since She knew I was primarily attracted to butches - but She was someone I could not resist. She pulled on my heartstrings, and I fell in love. She made it go boom. Something I had no control over.

I never really factored in physical appearance as a pre-requisite - HOWEVER - there have been very few instances in my life where I have dated femmes. (It really depended on how strongly I felt about them).

Sometimes, you think you know what you want - but your heart knows best.

I don't think it's shallow if you know what attracts you. But I do also have a tendency to believe in keeping an open mind and listening from "within". But, that's just me.

Love, to me, is just that unconditional.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Thanks Met. I love the "heart go boom"

So, I am curious...what do you see as the fem/factor for you?

Ok that's hard (lol). But since we're just talking appearance for me it's as simple as the traditional feminine characteristics. Not necessarily clothes... it's more a natural thing, the hips... defined brows... fuller lips... eyes... maybe hair.

Sometimes all of the above but even one can often be powerful enough to paint the whole picture.

I'd say other than that, clothes or styles aren't as important as I do have a very eclectic taste in that area so I'm attracted to many different personal styles from tough to soft or retro to geeky etc.

Hope that answers your question *s*

Metro

[Blade]

Originally Posted by June

"The heart wants what it wants"

xoxo
June

Loved this June! I can't tell ya everything I want but I can sure feel it when it appears

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by June

Hey, JennyBoo --

As you know, I am also partnered to a masculine appearing female who abjectly refuses to identify in any way. She also wears mens clothing and has close cropped hair. She gets called Sir a lot at stores, etc.

When I met her, she had shoulder length hair, and did for several years until one day, I got sick of her fussing with it all the time (shoving it out of the way and being pissed about it) and I took her to get her hair cut, telling her just to "Trust me". She did, and was pretty shocked at first, but then after that, she took control of her own hair and it started getting shorter and shorter.

I was attracted to her because of who she was, not how she looked, in that prior to her, I had always dated very masculine butches or Trans Men. Nearly 11 years later, I guess something worked.

I hope she'll come in and talk about this a little bit, because I don't want to tell her story, but I am pretty sure that if I said to her "You look pretty" she would get a bad face. I think she struggles with being feminized, or feeling feminized, and yet she is very much female ID'd.

"The heart wants what it wants"

xoxo
June

Oh yes, they are very similar in this way.

"I think she struggles with being feminized, or feeling feminized, and yet she is very much female ID'd."

Ren gets upset when people attach anything masculine to her, yet very much appears more masculine. It's a struggle for her. I sometimes forget that I can walk through the world and appear as your average straight woman, when she (and kat...and others) don't have the same experience or luxury (sort of???)...

I remember you telling me that story (and also the photo on the fridge) about her hair...and it's weird because I almost didn't realize it was her! It is interesting to me how much identity (or non) attachment there is to hair style or length...

[Words]

Originally Posted by June

"The heart wants what it wants"xoxo
June

I agree that this applies to long-term attraction, but initial attraction?

Nope, definitely not the heart.

Words

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Enchantress

Thank you for bringing this subject up. I will be back when I have a bit of time to share my thoughts as well...

I look forward to it!

[Gemme]

I'm as shallow as tiny trickling creek. I admit it. Own it. Honestly, I probably won't change because if someone can't catch my interest through my eyes, then that's it. End game.

However, what is physically attractive to me is not what floats the boats of others, and I'm thankful for that. Diversity is a beautiful thing!

I have to have someone who counterbalances my femininity. I know what Irish was saying about me=girl, you=boy. I get that, even if many feel it's heteronormative. For me, it's my reality.

I'm secure enough in my insecurity to admit that I feel "less" femme when I am with someone who doesn't balance me....complement me. It's far beyond simply what or who I find attractive; it's tied in with my self-image and how I present myself.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by IrishGrrl

*snip*
Initially, my eye (and other parts) gravitate toward the traditional masculine appearence. What's wierd is..I dont really go crazy over someone who appears TOO masculine. There has to be that hint of softness...in thier hands, thier face..thier voice..thier eyes.

Me too!

Originally Posted by IrishGrrl

I too wonder..if my husband had been more feminine "looking" if I would have initially picked him out as someone I wanted to date. These days, I'm much more flexiable about it. I used to only date butches who were pretty masculine. Now when I see butches who are less masculine appearing..it's thier energy I gravitate towards.(if I were single and gravitating!!!)

Another question that plaques me..

Am I the only femme that thinks..even if my partner is female ID'd..that.

I'm the girl
and
you are the boy?

And what does that mean?

By appearances, I am more the girl and she is more the boy. I definitely felt some of that in my relationships. Not *as much* with Ren, because we both bring masculine and feminine energies to the table. In the past, that may have played out more...but not now. It's definitely a combo of both.

Originally Posted by Gemme

I'm as shallow as tiny trickling creek. I admit it. Own it. Honestly, I probably won't change because if someone can't catch my interest through my eyes, then that's it. End game.

However, what is physically attractive to me is not what floats the boats of others, and I'm thankful for that. Diversity is a beautiful thing!

I have to have someone who counterbalances my femininity. I know what Irish was saying about me=girl, you=boy. I get that, even if many feel it's heteronormative. For me, it's my reality.

I'm secure enough in my insecurity to admit that I feel "less" femme when I am with someone who doesn't balance me....complement me. It's far beyond simply what or who I find attractive; it's tied in with my self-image and how I present myself.

Thanks for your honesty, Gemme. And great that you have the self-knowledge to know what works for you.

[bigbutchmistie]

For me and I hope Im able to really put my thoughts out. I have to be attracted to someone physically first. Then I wanna get to know them as a person If they arent as beautiful inside its a deal breaker for me.

[adorable]

When physical attraction has come first I have lost my head and stopped listening to my gut reactions. That wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. BUT I apparently can do the same thing with mental/emotional attractions where I haven't met the person. I don't like either situation because the result can be the same. I struggle between putting on the brakes and just going with it constantly.

I get told I'm pretty all the time. I am most feminine in appearance. I have a gift for attracting exactly the opposite of what I want. My taste in people has always been for those who look mean. The meaner the better. There is just something about them. **sigh**

Last night I met a girl who looked mean. One of my friends had picked her out special for me due to the mean look- and kind of pushed us together. Then she opened her mouth. OMG. She ruined it. I like the mean look. I don't like crass or stupid. Someone really needs to be able to hold an intelligent conversation. She spent most of the night trying to convince me she was a gang member or in some real time mafia. Yeah. Fascinating. Everytime I got up I would go into the bathroom with my friends and try to formulate an escape route. (Yes, this is one of the reasons that girls go to the bathroom in a group.)

I like smart, mean, funny and sexy. The smarter, meaner and funnier they are the sexier they become to me. They also need to know how to act, at least in public, and preferably be able to carry a conversation about something other then sex, violence or sports. It's amazing how many people don't have that ability. If they aren't talking about themselves - then they really have nothing to talk about. That gets old fast. So does the feeling that I have to do all the work to keep things going. Seriously, if it's that hard to talk to me or pay attention to me - forget it. Keep it moving.

[AtLast]

Have to say that some kind of spiritual connection has to be made along with the rest for me to pursue someone....

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Have to say that some kind of spiritual connection has to be made along with the rest for me to pursue someone....

you know I always say this and then forget my own rules. its important for me, essential in my life and my next relationship needs to have this. I think its really important to have things in common. I couldnt see myself with someone that hated the outdoors, gardening and animals. These are spiritual for me. I also need someone thats really really good to me...puts it out there because they feel it from a deep place.

I was with my sister today and we're maybe 4 years apart in age. We both agreed that settling was not an option. It's gotta be all or nothing.

[Naneegirl]

If you don’t know someone, if you’re meeting for the first time, there has to be something that makes you want to connect. Putting online aside for a moment, there’s going to be something about the way they look that catches your attention, something that causes that immediate visceral attraction. I’d venture to guess that even online there’s going to be something about the way you assume they look (that picture you build in your head) that catches your attention.

I’ve never really understood why it’s shallow to be attracted to certain physical qualities or why it’s shallow to pursue those attractions.

It seems to be considered a “bad thing about us” if we are only attracted to certain things. If we don’t pursue partnerships outside what we “typically” desire. If we say out loud that we desire xyz and only desire that. Why is that bad? Why is that shallow?

It seems to me that we are assigning a value judgment to our or others desire. Which leads me to ask…if you don’t desire something does that mean you are judging that thing to be bad? If someone does not want to be with you does that mean you are bad/awful/unworthy? Because, often when I’ve heard this type of statement it is said in the context of “you are a shallow (bad thing) if you can’t look beyond your desires”. Because a person doesn’t want to be with you romantically/sexually (whatever) does not mean that they find less value in you as a person? Because you don't want to be romantically/sexually with a person does that make you bad?

Perhaps people can explain what they mean by shallow. As I hear that word it a negative judgment of an act that seems damn typically human to me. We desire what we desire.

[Duchess]

SassyLeo, I completely understand where you're coming from. Physical appearance does matter, especially when you know absolutely nothing about the person except for what's on the outside. When you see a person for the first time, that's all you really have to go on. Unless you're studying them, which of course would be totally stalker like, you don't see their compassion, spiritual depth, love for animals, etc....

However, if you've had the opportunity to bond on some level via the phone or internet, then maybe the physical won't matter so much. As for me, I'm attracted to masculine women. I stopped asking why a long time ago. I just know I owe it to myself to go with what works for me...

Duchess