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Old 10-07-2018, 02:52 AM   #1
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Default Did a civil war just start?

If a certain social media spot (that rhymes with SpaceLook) is any indication, the addition of Trump sympathizer Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court marks the third and final segment of the Federal Government to be invaded by a man or men in a position to let Trump's many crimes* go unpunished.
If the number of protesters and arrests are any indication, this Supreme Court scam could be the last straw for Democrats, liberals and progressives going high when they go low.
I spent a good chunk of the evening swatting at MAGA-maniacs and encouraging my more temperate friends to start using the F word with gusto.
I may not own a gun, but I can talk so much smack, some of them might want to shoot themselves.


*please don't say he's innocent until proven guilty--his lawyer Michael Cohen already confessed to felony campaign finance violations (using campaign funds to pay off Trump's humps), thus making Trump an unindicted co-conspirator. No quibbling, please.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:12 AM   #2
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Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme View Post
Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.
Ever think that a "Civil War" can't be won without every recruit you can get ...whenever they join.
Isn't it possible to support those who have long fought, "..anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American, an immigrant, transgender, etc.", without taking a back handed slap at those whose eyes are now being opened.

OK, they weren't there in force before but what exactly is the strategic benefit of bitterly reminding them now that they are energizing.

Want to win a war? Stop with the "holier than thou" crap and grab every woman that wants to stand, Every one has their reasons for engaging and as long as they do, who are you to make them "lessers".
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:50 AM   #4
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BTW...I'm not entirely sure this is a "Civil War" or ever was, but it is a
catchy phrase.
Meaningful deadly skirmishes, yes; war, not yet and maybe never if minorities don't figure out how to welcome and fight together and forgive each other past failings.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:39 AM   #5
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In reading the posts I don't think anyone is trying to make someone feel "less than" merely pointing out the long fought struggle. Yes it's important that anyone who wants to salvage any shred of humanity be galvanized,we would be better served by motivating rather than immobilizing people by our words. It is in fact the ever present criticism of one's opinion which thwarts others from being spoken.

A Civil war in my opinion is brewing if not already here because the mere existence of any civility has been lost between the People and their government. I as a Canadian keep a watchful eye because the permeation of the hate is seeping across our borders and I'm not sure if we are being as mindful as we should be.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0LLETTE View Post
Ever think that a "Civil War" can't be won without every recruit you can get ...whenever they join.
Isn't it possible to support those who have long fought, "..anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American, an immigrant, transgender, etc.", without taking a back handed slap at those whose eyes are now being opened.

OK, they weren't there in force before but what exactly is the strategic benefit of bitterly reminding them now that they are energizing.

Want to win a war? Stop with the "holier than thou" crap and grab every woman that wants to stand, Every one has their reasons for engaging and as long as they do, who are you to make them "lessers".
Yeah, not attacking anyone. Merely pointing out this is nothing new. Am I happy white women are energized? Of course, I am one of them.

Glad that is all you got from what I wrote. The fact that your response was to automatically be defensive is interesting.
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme View Post
Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.
i tend to agree, independant moderate/liberal women outnumber white males and conservative women base, but getting them energized enough to vote has always been the problem. the d.c. senate/representatives will never get anywhere playing"fair"..the majority just eats their lunch everytime..they look weak and mostly, no spine either.
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme View Post
Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.
I hope you aren't assuming I am a 100% white woman.
It's Wheat toast, not white toast.
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:08 PM   #9
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I hope you aren't assuming I am a 100% white woman.
It's Wheat toast, not white toast.
I never make assumptions about anyone. Ever. I hope you weren't assuming that I was.
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0LLETTE View Post
BTW...I'm not entirely sure this is a "Civil War" or ever was, but it is a
catchy phrase.
Meaningful deadly skirmishes, yes; war, not yet and maybe never if minorities don't figure out how to welcome and fight together and forgive each other past failings.
It was a phrase, nothing more. I was up till the wee hours on another site, totally crushed over the judicial branch of the Federal government falling victim to the addition of yet another trump acolyte/enabler.
Now all three branches have been corrupted. It's upsetting.
But not everything I write is meant to be taken literally. I somehow doubt we'll be drafted into a civil war. I mean, really?
And I fail to see how this issue has been categorized as primarily a minority issue.
It is an issue about a corrupt president who had committed countless felonies across the board, and possibly having a stooge on the Supreme Court poised to let him go scot free on all counts, yes, even the minority immigration crimes.
But I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes.
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Old 10-07-2018, 04:31 PM   #11
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This "civil war" situation started as an issue about a corrupt president who has committed countless felonies across the board, and him possibly having a stooge on the Supreme Court poised to let him go scot free on all counts-- yes, even the heartless minority immigration crimes of separating babies from their mamas and housing toddlers in chain link cages, like dogs.
That's just one more case that sucks, but you have to remember, he does some new horrid thing almost daily and it's hard to keep up, much less keep them triaged in the midst of yesterday's tidal wave of the worst news in years.
The tidal wave was him now having stooges in every branch of the Federal Government, and knowing he may never have to pay for anything he's done.

I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes, because democracy as we know it may be ending as a result.
That feels more urgent to me right now than anything else, and I did not like the immediate implication(s) that I was being callous and cold and possibly "too white" toward the issue of immigrant babies held in cages without their parents. That was a fucking stretch, considering.

( Intenta saber de qué estás hablando antes de saltar a la crítica)

I'm allowed to prioritize my biggest concerns first, but I felt jumped the moment I posted. I don't mean I felt defensive--I mean I felt jumped, as in "contempt prior to investigation."

What kind of way is that to treat a shook up ally?

It seems like that son of a bitch Trump wants to cripple our economy, harpoon our relationships with allies, kill NATO and NAFDA, allow Kim Jong Un to make an ass of him, then watching Trump plan another little slumber party with Putin this fall without the state department knowing a thing about it.
But I really don't feel like sword fighting about that which I think is the most worrysome aspect of this latest development, versus what others may think.
Who was keeping anyone from writing their own version? Not I.

I wanted to vent my worries and perhaps find a gentle soul who could tell me everything was going to be all right even if they had to fib a little.

But I believe I could have found more tenderness and understanding from reptiles rather than some of the gun jumpers who pounced too soon.
Yes, I may be raw and especially thin skinned after being up almost all night reading about this latest nightmare and worrying myself sick over it.
So--
Who wants to pile on next?
How about a stern lecture about my reaction to feeling jumped?

Jeeze.
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Old 10-07-2018, 04:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheatToast View Post
This "civil war" situation started as an issue about a corrupt president who has committed countless felonies across the board, and him possibly having a stooge on the Supreme Court poised to let him go scot free on all counts-- yes, even the heartless minority immigration crimes of separating babies from their mamas and housing toddlers in chain link cages, like dogs.
That's just one more case that sucks, but you have to remember, he does some new horrid thing almost daily and it's hard to keep up, much less keep them triaged in the midst of yesterday's tidal wave of the worst news in years.
The tidal wave was him now having stooges in every branch of the Federal Government, and knowing he may never have to pay for anything he's done.

I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes, because democracy as we know it may be ending as a result.
That feels more urgent to me right now than anything else, and I did not like the immediate implication(s) that I was being callous and cold and possibly "too white" toward the issue of immigrant babies held in cages without their parents. That was a fucking stretch, considering.

( Intenta saber de qué estás hablando antes de saltar a la crítica)

I'm allowed to prioritize my biggest concerns first, but I felt jumped the moment I posted. I don't mean I felt defensive--I mean I felt jumped, as in "contempt prior to investigation."

What kind of way is that to treat a shook up ally?

It seems like that son of a bitch Trump wants to cripple our economy, harpoon our relationships with allies, kill NATO and NAFDA, allow Kim Jong Un to make an ass of him, then watching Trump plan another little slumber party with Putin this fall without the state department knowing a thing about it.
But I really don't feel like sword fighting about that which I think is the most worrysome aspect of this latest development, versus what others may think.
Who was keeping anyone from writing their own version? Not I.

I wanted to vent my worries and perhaps find a gentle soul who could tell me everything was going to be all right even if they had to fib a little.

But I believe I could have found more tenderness and understanding from reptiles rather than some of the gun jumpers who pounced too soon.
Yes, I may be raw and especially thin skinned after being up almost all night reading about this latest nightmare and worrying myself sick over it.
So--
Who wants to pile on next?
How about a stern lecture about my reaction to feeling jumped?

Jeeze.
Toast, sorry if you felt disrespected or ignored. I think people saw your post and processed it according to their own experience, so shared how they see the world currently - rather then deliberating engaging in being negative to you personally. I think you have a mad (ie, mad skills) intellect and you have a unique and open way of sharing..thank you!
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:35 PM   #13
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I too apologize that you feel attacked or jumped on. I totally get it. Politics gets everyone fired up these days.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0LLETTE View Post
Ever think that a "Civil War" can't be won without every recruit you can get ...whenever they join.
Isn't it possible to support those who have long fought, "..anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American, an immigrant, transgender, etc.", without taking a back handed slap at those whose eyes are now being opened.

Want to win a war? Stop with the "holier than thou" crap and grab every woman that wants to stand, Every one has their reasons for engaging and as long as they do, who are you to make them "lessers".
Nothing rude about that "holier than thou" comment, ey? If you are this quick to condemn before you know even a sliver of the whole story, can we assume you also are a 'premature congratulator'?
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:31 PM   #15
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Toast, sorry if you felt disrespected or ignored. I think people saw your post and processed it according to their own experience, so shared how they see the world currently - rather then deliberating engaging in being negative to you personally. I think you have a mad (ie, mad skills) intellect and you have a unique and open way of sharing..thank you!

Thanks so much, that was very kind of you to say. You owe me no apology.
I didn't feel ignored, just pounced on because it seemed like some others were quick to judge and prioritize what the topic of my post and my experience of it "should have been" according to their values or perceptions of the way I should have prioritized yesterday's events.
That they went off topic notwithstanding, for people to assume I was whitey white bread, therefore a Joanie come lately to the immigration struggle, and then jumping to the conclusion I thought it wasn't a big deal until I deigned to put my big pink hands all over it. That was presumptuous bullshit.
I am politically correct most of the time, but when people launch into passive aggressive insinuations without knowing one iota about the facts--or even the topic before they castigate--that's not PC, it's just obnoxious.
No need for apologies from anyone, though, I don't care what people say when they go off half cocked.
It's not about me, or even my business to know.

I live in South Central Texas--it's the state with the longest contiguous border with Mexico. My great grand parents could have very well crossed the same border 100 years ago.
I know a few DACA dreamers, and I have donated time and money toward ending these sadistic policies.
Trust me, it's a very personal, emotionally painful situation for many of us in the vicinity, but I'd prefer to discuss it when it's my idea.

But again, my original post was about the third and final level of the Federal government being breached by a very unpleasant Trump ally, and what that might mean to American democracy.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by WheatToast View Post
Thanks so much, that was very kind of you to say. You owe me no apology.
I didn't feel ignored, just pounced on because it seemed like some others were quick to judge and prioritize what the topic of my post and my experience of it "should have been" according to their values or perceptions of the way I should have prioritized yesterday's events.
That they went off topic notwithstanding, for people to assume I was whitey white bread, therefore a Joanie come lately to the immigration struggle, and then jumping to the conclusion I thought it wasn't a big deal until I deigned to put my big pink hands all over it. That was presumptuous bullshit.
I am politically correct most of the time, but when people launch into passive aggressive insinuations without knowing one iota about the facts--or even the topic before they castigate--that's not PC, it's just obnoxious.
No need for apologies from anyone, though, I don't care what people say when they go off half cocked.
It's not about me, or even my business to know.

I live in South Central Texas--it's the state with the longest contiguous border with Mexico. My great grand parents could have very well crossed the same border 100 years ago.
I know a few DACA dreamers, and I have donated time and money toward ending these sadistic policies.
Trust me, it's a very personal, emotionally painful situation for many of us in the vicinity, but I'd prefer to discuss it when it's my idea.

But again, my original post was about the third and final level of the Federal government being breached by a very unpleasant Trump ally, and what that might mean to American democracy.
Toast...on the day Trump was sworn into office and we had a million woman march the next day..i thought that would make an impression on Trump..it didn't...and unfortunately in the last 2 years, i don't believe the liberals have spent their political energy wisely..we have scattered, we fight among ourselves and i don't think the DNC has a decent plan to help win back rural america and state races..liberals(the minority) want to play fair -the conservatives(the majority) fight dirty..and the vast majority of Americans are more concerned with their bottom line then they are our freedom and democracy...so a war...probably not..at least not yet.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:03 AM   #17
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tannerite ... and lots of it

please don't anyone go getting upset, I am just kidding (kind of)
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Old 10-08-2018, 02:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme View Post
Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.
I don't know how to thank you enough for this posting, tantalizingfemme.

I can barely speak about these things without literally choking up—the words get stuck in my throat and I become defensive.

I usually don't discuss these subjects with anyone outside my circle of friends. This isn't unusual with Black women my age—at least among those I know. It's easy for us to speak among each other, but not with those outside our circle because we're often accused of being divisive, petty, unsupporting, the list goes on ... and it's just not worth the headaches and heartaches we face. And no, I feel no responsibility to create any bridges.

So thank you for expressing something that I cannot or will not discuss. You get it.

Hoping one day we meet so I can thank you in person.
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:56 PM   #19
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Gosh, I need a favour. Would someone please show me where WheatToast got "jumped on".
This is absurd. Want attention? Just write a vague indefinite post. Get indignant when people just don't get you and make "assumptions" about you ( as if they had some clear options based on a clearly stated thesis and a whole bunch of "knowing-you-for-years" details; then get all puffy 'cause few , if any "got it". The key is to write clearly so that people do "get you". It's not the grammar, it's the " which sentence indicates the point and mentions the "Russians" thing.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:48 PM   #20
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according to pundits..the liberal base is energized...i hope so!
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