The Psychology of Online Dating

[knight]

The psychology of online dating
Face to face dating in general can be very positive, difficult, exciting, disappointing and at times energy consuming. Add online to the mix and you have a variety of factors to add to the list above. I speak here only from experience and opinion. I claim not, that I am an expert of any kind, I am only feeling my way through the experience just like everyone else.
Regardless of identity, most human beings experience dating at one time or another in their lives. There seems to be this interesting stigma (again I speak only from experience) when it comes to dating in the Butch/Femme world.
Again regardless of preferences within the dynamic of Butch/Femme… dating seems to be an “ugly” word. My approach to dating is simple, is to try to connect with people of like interest. If I find myself in a position where I simply lack capacity for investing time in a serious relationship I am very transparent and forth coming about it. When I feel completely open to the idea of a serious relationship, it starts with dating.
I have had the great pleasure of dating amazing women online and truly enjoyed the exchange that we had. I am sometimes baffled by the opinions that I hear of individuals like me. Dating someone is not a marriage certificate, it is simply dating. My approach to dating or choosing a partner has never come from a scarcity model. We all have a lot to offer, and one should simply never settle just because we think this is as good as it gets. The dating pool is a large pool, it’s not this desperate place where one feels that they have to attach to the first person that gives them attention.
I think the process of dating allows you to know the individual, and not just go on the initial infatuation. Deciding to end or continue dating is a big decision that requires a lot of care. Having to decide that an individual that you are dating is simply not going to work out is always difficult and disappointing. A lot of energy and time are spent while dating someone, emotions as well as intimacy have been shared. But to put it simply, regardless of the pain, the loss and the disappointment, isn’t this why we actually date people instead of marry them from hello?
Dating is an exchange, both individuals gain from the experience and if it does not work out, they both feel the loss.
I would love to have a dialogue with others on this topic, so what is your psychology on online dating?

[girl_dee]

i will come back to this but one thing that is a positive for me.. is history.

Example..

i meet you in a bar.. i have no idea who you are.. how you treat femmes... if you are a player..

i meet you in a chatroom on this site... i probably know you from the threads... or reunions etc... i can see a history.. i can see if you and i have similar interests or opinions.. etc

if you ARE a player it will likely show up online somewhere...

a LOT of information can be gained when you decide to date someone online.


GREAT thread Knight!

[BullDog]

We certainly do see lots of professions of love online and then a little while later some of the same people are professing their great love for someone else. However, I don't think that automatically means everyone is desperate or settling for the first person who comes along.

Everyone goes at their own pace and in their own way.

Some people can know each other for a very long time and barely scratch the surface of knowing each other, whereas other people can have very indepth conversations, correspondence and other means of communicating and connecting where they know each other quite well in a fairly short amount of time. Obviously the more time spent getting to know each other the better and especially in person. But it varies widely.

I think the quality of the connection and communication of getting to know someone is the most important, although time is definitely important too. As I like to say - the proof is in the pudding. I want my relationship to last for the rest of my life so the proof is when it does. I guess I won't know until I'm ready to go, lol.

With long distance relationships it can be very difficult to have significant amounts of in-person time together. A romantic week or weekend is a very nice dating experience but still will not ultimately tell you what day to day life will be like. It is nice when there is a situation when a couple can spend a significant amount of time in person together that lies somewhere in between a date and commitment of living together. This could of course come after some dates. But again it is going to depend on the people's situation. There is no one approach.

[Lyte]

Excellent point and observation there. I agree, it's less likely desperation or settling that moves someone from one person to another in a short period of time. Dating online and/or at a long distance carries with it a level of anonymity which can be hugely comforting for some people.

Speaking in general...

Sure, you may have met a few times ... dated a few times... done some other things a few times () ... BUT... the harsh and painful realities that exist when things go south are significantly less when the person doesn't live near you and you don't have to see them again. <--- this "out" if you will ....from the emotional pain ... or just the inconvenience of a breakup ... makes online/distance relationships ... for some individuals... disposable.

Originally Posted by BullDog

We certainly do see lots of professions of love online and then a little while later some of the same people are professing their great love for someone else. However, I don't think that automatically means everyone is desperate or settling for the first person who comes along.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Lyte

Again... interesting!

I do not date online and/or at a distance.

Despite our best efforts... however good or careful we may think we are... there is no substitution for the level of communication ... or the level of intimacy... that comes from looking someone in the eye and/or seeing the expression on their face.

It was established long ago that human beings communicate primarily (read: best) through non-verbal cues. As well as I may think I'm able to communicate my thoughts, my feelings verbally it would be difficult to hold someone else accountable for their understanding of me if we are not (more often than not) face to face.

A quick Google...

Nonverbal Communication

Behavior and elements of speech aside from the words themselves that transmit meaning. Non-verbal communication includes pitch, speed, tone and volume of voice, gestures and facial expressions, body posture, stance, and proximity to the listener, eye movements and contact, and dress and appearance.

Research suggests that only 5 percent effect is produced by the spoken word, 45 percent by the tone, inflexion, and other elements of voice, and 50 percent by body language, movements, eye contact, etc.

I've no idea if those percentages are correct.... but the ratios are about right. The point being... probably 85% - 95% of what's needed to fully understand another human being requires us to be face-to face.



P.S. To be clear ... I will however flirt online... and/or ... at a distance!

Yes, and this is PRECISELY why Skype and FaceTime were invented.

Next excuse?

[Lyte]

You darlin' are... BRILL! lol

I've never used FaceTime and/or Skype and more importantly... thus far... I've not felt a desire to learn. So, until such time as I feel otherwise... you may call me Benedick

"I will not be sworn but love may transform me to an oyster, but I’ll take my oath on it, till he have made an oyster of me, he shall never make me such a fool. One woman is fair, yet I am well; another is wise, yet I am well; another virtuous, yet I am well; but till all graces be in one woman, one woman shall not come in my grace." Signior Benedick

Please don't misunderstand ... you or anyone else... I'm not criticizing anyone else's love adventure!

Originally Posted by Gemme

Yes, and this is PRECISELY why Skype and FaceTime were invented.

Next excuse?

[cathexis]

Online dating's not for me either. I broke up my previous marriage of 10 years due to the "siren" on the other end of the phone. Within 2 years, I regretted my decision and there was no way to reverse it.

Will flirt, maybe meet, but now I guard my heart with an iron padlock.

Told my Partner that I won't even "chat" except in a group. My choice...too tempting late at night and lonely.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Lyte

Excellent point and observation there. I agree, it's less likely desperation or settling that moves someone from one person to another in a short period of time. Dating online and/or at a long distance carries with it a level of anonymity which can be hugely comforting for some people.

Speaking in general...

Sure, you may have met a few times ... dated a few times... done some other things a few times () ... BUT... the harsh and painful realities that exist when things go south are significantly less when the person doesn't live near you and you don't have to see them again. <--- this "out" if you will ....from the emotional pain ... or just the inconvenience of a breakup ... makes online/distance relationships ... for some individuals... disposable.

I agree with this Lyte, and honestly it seems like most relationships don't last these days - whether they are local or online/LDR. Some are for good reasons I think. For example, my mother stayed with my father out of Christian duty and she was a housewife until I was a teenager. So in the past, I think a lot of people stayed together out of duty and it was what was expected and women didn't have as many opportunities available to them. But today it does seem that people are less willing to work out issues and stay together. Of course it is a fine line between staying together and being with someone who isn't a good match for you. And with a relationship that is mostly online it is definitely very easy to move on to something new.

I want a good match where the person is also willing to work out things with me when there are issues and not accuse me of a bunch of shit and not let me express myself. I don't think that's too much to ask, lol, and going well in that department currently.

A lot of people also just seem to want to flirt and text and play around online or on the phone - which is cool as long as both people are upfront with what they want. But if you are trying to seriously get to know someone and that isn't clear it can be rather disappointing.

p.s. yes dee wasn't accusing you of anything. The internet gossip is thick and yes there are also trails.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

i will come back to this but one thing that is a positive for me.. is history.

Example..

i meet you in a bar.. i have no idea who you are.. how you treat femmes... if you are a player..

i meet you in a chatroom on this site... i probably know you from the threads... or reunions etc... i can see a history.. i can see if you and i have similar interests or opinions.. etc

if you ARE a player it will likely show up online somewhere...

a LOT of information can be gained when you decide to date someone online.


GREAT thread Knight!

dee I agree but you have to be careful about where your glean your information because there is a lot of internet gossip and stuff you hear online about people that is totally untrue. I am definitely not saying you listen to gossip, just saying it can be misleading.

However, yes people often leave trails.

On the positive side, one of the ways I have gotten interested in femmes often is from reading and enjoying their posts. And having a shared history of online community like this one can definitely be a positive and informative thing.

[Lyte]

SUBSCRIBED

Will come back to this one. Interesting!

[Lyte]

Again... interesting!

I do not date online and/or at a distance.

Despite our best efforts... however good or careful we may think we are... there is no substitution for the level of communication ... or the level of intimacy... that comes from looking someone in the eye and/or seeing the expression on their face.

It was established long ago that human beings communicate primarily (read: best) through non-verbal cues. As well as I may think I'm able to communicate my thoughts, my feelings verbally it would be difficult to hold someone else accountable for their understanding of me if we are not (more often than not) face to face.

A quick Google...

Nonverbal Communication

Behavior and elements of speech aside from the words themselves that transmit meaning. Non-verbal communication includes pitch, speed, tone and volume of voice, gestures and facial expressions, body posture, stance, and proximity to the listener, eye movements and contact, and dress and appearance.

Research suggests that only 5 percent effect is produced by the spoken word, 45 percent by the tone, inflexion, and other elements of voice, and 50 percent by body language, movements, eye contact, etc.

I've no idea if those percentages are correct.... but the ratios are about right. The point being... probably 85% - 95% of what's needed to fully understand another human being requires us to be face-to face.



P.S. To be clear ... I will however flirt online... and/or ... at a distance!

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by BullDog

dee I agree but you have to be careful about where your glean your information because there is a lot of internet gossip and stuff you hear online about people that is totally untrue. I am definitely not saying you listen to gossip, just saying it can be misleading.

However, yes people often leave trails.

On the positive side, one of the ways I have gotten interested in femmes often is from reading and enjoying their posts. And having a shared history of online community like this one can definitely be a positive and informative thing.

thanks but i am not speaking to gossip.... we all post on these forums and leave our own trails....

[gotoseagrl]

I think the scariest thing though is trusting the face one puts on in public when sometimes there is a completely different side hiding offline. Like Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Unfortunately I think in most cases it comes down to trying to spend as much time in person in order to see the full truth that is there that no one else sees. Apprently its really easy to put on a good act for the public eye. I think its always a risk. Especially for those of us who see the good in people and use that to trust they will be sane and healthy too easily. And some of us have to learn the hard way, even in offline dating.

Originally Posted by girl_dee

i will come back to this but one thing that is a positive for me.. is history.

Example..

i meet you in a bar.. i have no idea who you are.. how you treat femmes... if you are a player..

i meet you in a chatroom on this site... i probably know you from the threads... or reunions etc... i can see a history.. i can see if you and i have similar interests or opinions.. etc

if you ARE a player it will likely show up online somewhere...

a LOT of information can be gained when you decide to date someone online.


GREAT thread Knight!

[Greco]

I no longer date online, period. Discovered that many PD (Personality Disordered) folks basically make online dating, etc their "hunting grounds". As a consequence of my experience with a femme narcissist I dove deeply into my healing from it. And began researching people with personality disorders for several years and now work with people who have also survived these abusive and dangerous people/relationships.

Online dating? No way.

Greco

[BullDog]

Yeah online dating has definitely bitten me in the ass too, but I keep the faith.

Speaking of trails, some of us do have a very long history in the online BF community and I really think it would be difficult for some of us old timers to be fine upstanding online community members and then be monsters offline. I guess anything's possible.

I've been on this and the previous butch femme site for over 15 years now and dated/lived with several femmes and been to reunions and lived in the same city as a number of different community members, have several thousand posts people can read, etc. so I think it would be really difficult for me to hide some monster side of myself or have some strange mental illness that I somehow cleverly disguise. And many other members have long histories too. However, meeting people online is definitely not everyone's cup of tea. I'm not available for dating anyway, but anyone can check my history anytime.

So yeah, follow the patterns - the overall patterns - of someone.

[Lyte]

True and very likely for most people online. However, we can't leave out or discount that no matter how well (accurately) we present ourselves online we are still subject to another person's perception.

And... even if we present ourselves accurately and are perceived accurately that does not equate to a successful / compatible long-term relationship.

Originally Posted by BullDog

I've been on this and the previous butch femme site for over 15 years now and dated/lived with several femmes and been to reunions and lived in the same city as a number of different community members, have several thousand posts people can read, etc. so I think it would be really difficult for me to hide some monster side of myself or have some strange mental illness that I somehow cleverly disguise. And many other members have long histories too.

[Lyte]

You make a valid, if not startling, point.

IF someone did have a PD ... or frankly ... was just an unpleasant person... and found themselves unsuccessful in real life, (friends, lovers and such) ... the internet is a place where they can learn/practice masking their issues. Or masking them sufficiently to have some kind of social life.

This is not to suggest that a good number of people who socialize online have issues! It simply means that the the internet gives them a better cover and makes it much more difficult for others to get the best "read" on them.

Questions...

What part has missing... or, let's be honest ignoring... red flags played in anyone's online dating?

Dating is often the first step we take when we're attracted to someone and want to learn and experience more of them. But... we enter a very tricky place with someone once we "officially" start dating and/or call us getting together a date. Does the getting to know someone require a "date?" Why not get to know someone and then say, if only to yourself... I want to date this person!

Originally Posted by Greco

I no longer date online, period. Discovered that many PD (Personality Disordered) folks basically make online dating, etc their "hunting grounds". As a consequence of my experience with a femme narcissist I dove deeply into my healing from it. And began researching people with personality disorders for several years and now work with people who have also survived these abusive and dangerous people/relationships.

Online dating? No way.

Greco

[Bèsame*]

Originally Posted by Lyte

You make a valid, if not startling, point.

IF someone did have a PD ... or frankly ... was just an unpleasant person... and found themselves unsuccessful in real life, (friends, lovers and such) ... the internet is a place where they can learn/practice masking their issues. Or masking them sufficiently to have some kind of social life.

This is not to suggest that a good number of people who socialize online have issues! It simply means that the the internet gives them a better cover and makes it much more difficult for others to get the best "read" on them.

Questions...

What part does missing... or, let's be honest ignoring... red flags played in anyone's online dating?

Dating is often the first step we take when we're attracted to someone and want to learn and experience more of them. But... we enter a very tricky place with someone once we "officially" start dating and/or call us getting together a date. Does the getting to know someone require a "date?" Why not get to know someone and then say, if only to yourself... I want to date this person!

Eventually, and hopefully in the course of conversations the red flags appear. I believe those who are wise to the on line conversations have learned to spot them. You can choose to back away or ignore. Perhaps those that ignore have their own flags to protect.

Remember...lesbians really don't date, they just rent u-hauls. ....

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Lyte

You make a valid, if not startling, point.

IF someone did have a PD ... or frankly ... was just an unpleasant person... and found themselves unsuccessful in real life, (friends, lovers and such) ... the internet is a place where they can learn/practice masking their issues. Or masking them sufficiently to have some kind of social life.

This is not to suggest that a good number of people who socialize online have issues! It simply means that the the internet gives them a better cover and makes it much more difficult for others to get the best "read" on them.

There are definitely plenty of these types. How many more times is Jake Tulane going to come back under a different screen name?

They usually don't have much real life contact with anyone. Although it also true that there are plenty of honest members who haven't either.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Lyte

You make a valid, if not startling, point.

IF someone did have a PD ... or frankly ... was just an unpleasant person... and found themselves unsuccessful in real life, (friends, lovers and such) ... the internet is a place where they can learn/practice masking their issues. Or masking them sufficiently to have some kind of social life...

Questions...

What part has missing... or, let's be honest ignoring... red flags played in anyone's online dating?...

I certainly wouldn't rule out dating a person who battles depression or PTSD, or has other less serious mental health challenges, but I'm DONE with dating dangerously disordered people! Unfortunately I seem to have had a blind spot for people with Borderline Personality Disorder. Both of the women I dated who I had initially met online seem to be grievously afflicted with that disorder. I won't be falling for that one again. There were a few cues I should have heeded in both cases.

The first red flag for the first one should have been when she spent far too many pixels beating her breast while declaiming her honor. That's usually a sign that a person is deficient in that category. She turned out to be a dirt-bag liar, of course. She also changed gears instantly from charming to monstrous the last two dates when we saw each other face to face, which seems to be one of the signature moves of a person with BPD. There were other signs, but we didn't have enough in-person encounters for me to experience the full weight of her mental illness. Thank the Goddess.

In the second case I definitely should have noticed that the butch in question was, according to her, always the completely innocent victim of everyone with whom she had ever been in conflict. That's usually the sign of a person unwilling to take responsibility for themselves. I should have noticed that. She also cried. A LOT. Which left me in a difficult position. I was deeply uncomfortable with her far too frequent tears, but as a feminist I would NEVER have questioned tears shed by a masculine person. That won't happen again. And she, too, changed from pleasant to dangerous in a heartbeat. I experienced her violence once and I fled. I cut off all contact just as I had with the previous BPD butch, but I spooked myself. How could I have been so blind?

Since BPD isn't that easy to spot even in person, and since I seem to find those losers without trying, I'm no longer putting myself at risk with online encounters.