having kids/being the nonbio parent

stephfromMIT · 08-20-2012, 02:30 PM

Anyone here start a family after coming out/partnering? If you weren't the gestational parent, how did you deal? If you were, how did your SO cope?

When we have kids, Amanda will be the gestational mom (I lack the body fat % to sustain a pregnancy)

QueenofSmirks · 08-20-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Anyone here start a family after coming out/partnering? If you weren't the gestational parent, how did you deal? If you were, how did your SO cope?

When we have kids, Amanda will be the gestational mom (I lack the body fat % to sustain a pregnancy)

I'm not sure I understand the question. "How did you deal"... with what? "How did your SO cope"... with what?

stephfromMIT · 08-20-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I'm not sure I understand the question. "How did you deal"... with what? "How did your SO cope"... with what?

How did you deal with the fact that it was your SO who was pregnant, or if you were pregnant, how they dealt with it. (Yes, I'm probably way over-thinking this)

Heavenleahangel · 08-20-2012, 03:25 PM

This is going to be a unique reply, I am sure, but as a femme who fully embraced a very close friend and partner who was in tune with their own bodies/identities enough to want to carry a child and add to our family, I can rightly say I was 110% ready, willing and able to support my partner with carrying our child.

I have older bio children and regretted being unable to have another child, but felt blessed to be in the position to be a part of such a beautiful experience. It didn't matter to me the child would not have been my "gestational" child. He/she would have been my child none the less. My love knows no boundries and all children are precious.

Unfortunately, there was great difficulty in conceiving and she didn't/couldn't make her dream a reality, but I would still to this day stand by my partner and do whatever was needed to support a pregnancy.

jac · 08-20-2012, 05:36 PM

I had an ex that wanted desperately to have a baby. I was willing and we tried artificial insemination several times. It just wasn't happening. I was all for it, though, so that she could experience what I had. And as for my current relationship... If she wanted to I would be right there in support of her choices and desires, and I would take care of her in any and all ways that I could. Myself I have had children already and physically cannot have anymore, nor do I want to. It was an expereince I am all set with now...

always2late · 08-20-2012, 05:50 PM

Ok, I hate sounding like a downer, but just wanted to insert my 2 cents here. Anyone considering starting a family where one partner is going to be the actual bio-mother of the child needs to consult an attorney. I know we don't like to think of a relationship ending when we are in love...but, as we know, it does happen. Luckily, I have never been in this situation, but I have friends who have been...and they have had to deal not only with the heartbreak of losing their partner, but with the complete devastation of losing their child as well.

Bard · 08-20-2012, 05:50 PM

I have a daughter with my EX she is the biomom I never missed a appointment from insemination to birth I was the first to hold Goose and she is as much my daughter as my EX's and if anyone questions that I can tell you she will fight you. I have visitation with my daughter and I pay child support. during her pregnancy I did whatever I could just like and partner would I guess it was more her family that sees Goose as theirs not related to me and her mother has said that to me and to Goose however MY family sees Goose as part of our family no questions asked, we had picked a donor who was close to my ethnic background and really Goose looks more like my family then she does the EX's.

stephfromMIT · 08-20-2012, 05:51 PM

2late-We will be legally married, so I assume divorce law would be applicable.

spritzerJ · 08-20-2012, 05:53 PM

Hi Steph... Gestational parent of one girl, known around the planet as The General. I always wondered more about Alpha Femmes, so word to the wise... careful what you wonder about...

I was in a committed relationship with a woman (we did the as close to marriage event as we could) when The General was conceived. We have a known donor who will identity release when The General is 18 or she figures it out.

I can not speak to the non gestational parent feelings really well. I will note several things that was important in our journey.
1. Read the books on lesbian conception. I read it, she didn't. It can cause friction. Be sure to laugh about the process and even what you read. Parenting requires a sense of humor.
2. Be present physically during insemination. Scheduling the whole ball of wax can be tricky. I told her the book said it was important but she decided to skip out early and well it really, really upset her later. She felt disconnected in a way she attributed to her not staying the whole time and not coming the 2nd round. Like I could just do it with out her. Which was a terrible guilt I could not ease.
3. Enjoy the pregnancy and all the craziness. My ex wasn't perfect but she was while I was pregnant. She put up with a lot and had a great sense of humor. Sure it was trying at times but I am very grateful now for her understanding.
4. I obsessed about the whole conceiving thing. It was hard to not try a cycle because I got so stressed out but we had to take a break. If you are a known obsessor make a plan to support the non obsessor or both of you in the process.

Other notables...
1. We have a great agreement with our known donor. It has morphed a little bit and everyone is okay with the changes. His mom knows The General, we didn't expect that even though we talked about it. She is accepting of her non grandparent just special person who loves The general role. We are very lucky.
2. We did try with a sperm bank a couple times. That process was tricky and well in retrospect a hoot.
3. We inseminated at home. There was no reason to believe I was going to need assistance getting pregnant (assistance other than the to go cup). There are legal things to consider but no amount of having a doctor do it was going to save us a hassle and heart ache if our donor decided to change his mind.

The_Lady_Snow · 08-20-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

2late-We

will be legally married, so I assume divorce law would be applicable.

A.H. v. M.P., 447 Mass. 828 (2006). A woman who never adopted the child of her same-sex partner, "although she was well aware of the importance of doing so," and was not the primary caretaker for the child, did not have a legal right to visitation or a support agreement as a "de facto parent." Further, the court declined to adopt a "parent by estoppel," theory as defined in the ALI Principles of the Law of Family Dissolution § 2.03 (2002). saying, in part, "the parent by estoppel principle is a most dramatic intrusion into the rights of fit parents to care for their child as they see fit." and "parent by estoppel status is most appropriate where "adoption is not legally available or possible.""

Della Corte v. Ramirez, 81 Mass. App. Ct. 906 (2012). A child born of a same-sex marriage is the legitimate child of both people. "As a result, it follows that when there is a marriage between same-sex couples, the need for that second-parent adoption to, at the very least, confer legal parentage on the nonbiological parent is eliminated when the child is born of the marriage."

E.N.O. v. L.M.M., 429 Mass. 824 (1999). De Facto Parents. "A child may be a member of a nontraditional family in which he is parented by a legal parent and a de facto parent. A de facto parent is one who has no biological relation to the child, but has participated in the child's life as a member of the child's family. The de facto parent resides with the child and, with the consent and encouragement of the legal parent, performs a share of caretaking functions at least as great as the legal parent." In this instance, the court may order visitation for the de facto parent.

always2late · 08-20-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

2late-We will be legally married, so I assume divorce law would be applicable.

Don't be so sure...if the child is your partner's biological child you have no rights. It would be the same as if I married a man with my son from a previous marriage. Were we to divorce, he would have no rights regarding custody, visitation, etc...because it is not his child. The same applies to a non-biological same-sex parent. I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I have a good friend who was with her partner for 10+ years (and in a legally recognized civil-union), paid for IVF, was there throughout the pregnancy and birth, and was a co-parent in EVERY sense of the word for 6 years...and who now cannot see her daughter. All I'm saying is make sure your rights are legally protected.

firegal · 08-20-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

2late-We will be legally married, so I assume divorce law would be applicable.

You know what they say about assuming...... Gay marriage has come along way...but we are far from where we need/want/should be.

Their have been some very unfortunate rulings in many states,as recent as last year.

I,m just saying....judges and courts have their opinions and interpretations!

I pray the progress inthe legal system continues to change/improve to protect the parents...and the children.

Gemme · 08-25-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Anyone here start a family after coming out/partnering? If you weren't the gestational parent, how did you deal? If you were, how did your SO cope?

When we have kids, Amanda will be the gestational mom (I lack the body fat % to sustain a pregnancy)

Well, I came into the game late. Luv's baby Luv is in the double digits now, so I was far, far away when the creation and expulsion of the munchkin happened.

However, I can tell you this. I deal well, most of the time. I am a very private, personal person and I do miss having more 'me' time, but at the same time, I don't. I like the kid. The kid likes me. I like Luv. Luv likes me. It all works. On the few occasions when I'm about the blow, Luv takes care of it...of me...of us.

I cope and/or deal as any other step parent would, I suppose. I was the one to pull Baby Luv's brand new, fresh from her TA assignment teacher to the side to explain our family dynamics and why our child might address her parents as pop and mom, instead of something else. I am the one to take the munchkin shopping (except when I drag Luv along too). I am the one the lil one scrunches up to on the couch while we watch TV at night.

I didn't birth her, but that doesn't make her any less mine. I lay down the law and am listened to and respected just as much as Luv is. We got hella lucky; she's a good kid. So, we don't have to worry too much about this stuff. Yet. The teen years have yet to come.

So, I guess maybe my response doesn't really fit with what you are asking, but it's my experience. If you're a step parent or 'other' parent or half of the parenting force or whatever else you prefer to call it, you do what you need to do. You put your own shit aside and put the kid's first. You suck it up and put your big girl/boy panties/boxers on and do what needs to be done. You act like what you are: a parent.

And, if the parenting team is fractured for whatever reason, the kid will see that. And then things get hairy.

Greyson · 08-25-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

2late-We will be legally married, so I assume divorce law would be applicable.

Do not make such an assumption. Currently in the U.S. there is a patch work of laws and it is not guaranteed you will be legally recognized as a parent. In my experience of life there is nothing as painful as losing the child you opened your heart to and believed you were to be one of their parents have this child in your life to love, raise and prepare for adulthood. You may live with a piece of your heart missing for the rest of your life. You do not want to experience it. Good luck to you and yours.

mustangjeano · 08-25-2012, 11:28 PM

Back in 1985 my partner and I decided to have a baby. She was concieved at home (I did the insemination) The only legal thing available to us in Ca. at that time was a co-parenting agreement contract drawn up by a lawyer. When our daughter was almost three her Mom decided that she was in love with someone else and I began a very challenging role as the non custodial parent--I really love my daughter and was determined to stay in her life as her "other Mom" There were lots of heartaches such as taking her back to her Mom after my weekend and knowing the situation at her Mom's house was not healthy for my daughter but I had to suck it up because I had no legal rights other than visitation every other weekend. I am not saying that I would not do it all again just sharing how my journey has been. There have been lots of great times with my daughter and we are very close. She and her husband just gave her Mom and I a beautiful grandaughter. Just my story.

G Snap! · 09-02-2012, 11:24 AM

Good thread, very interesting! This is a big topic between many same-sex couples, and I have seen this make or break relationships.

I am pleased to see the couples, who have decided to have a baby together, but are no longer a couple, are able to keep both the child's and non-biological parent's relationship intact.

The cases The_Lady_Snow referenced are in your favor if you both marry in Massachusetts and have your child there. If you are familiar with laws, you know the courts have to rule the same way in any future similar cases. Fortunately Massachusetts has their sh*t together. If I may say so without intent to offend anyone; they separate church and state, and recognize marriage as a legal contract, not a union made before god.
It leaves me asking: Would this be something noted on a prenump agreement?

08-20-2012, 02:30 PM	#1
stephfromMIT Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Troll Preferred Pronoun?: she her Relationship Status: engaged to my fiancee Amanda Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: cambridge MA Posts: 230 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 703 Thanked 408 Times in 143 Posts Rep Power: 0	having kids/being the nonbio parent Anyone here start a family after coming out/partnering? If you weren't the gestational parent, how did you deal? If you were, how did your SO cope? When we have kids, Amanda will be the gestational mom (I lack the body fat % to sustain a pregnancy) Last edited by stephfromMIT; 08-20-2012 at 02:33 PM. Reason: our future plans

08-20-2012, 03:25 PM	#4
Heavenleahangel Member How Do You Identify?: OFOS Femme; Earth bound Angel and Babygirl; Preferred Pronoun?: She, Angel, as long as it's respectful Relationship Status: Waiting for the One who can complete me Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Albany, NY~but originally from Georgia Posts: 562 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,257 Thanked 2,069 Times in 468 Posts Rep Power: 18675552	This is going to be a unique reply, I am sure, but as a femme who fully embraced a very close friend and partner who was in tune with their own bodies/identities enough to want to carry a child and add to our family, I can rightly say I was 110% ready, willing and able to support my partner with carrying our child. I have older bio children and regretted being unable to have another child, but felt blessed to be in the position to be a part of such a beautiful experience. It didn't matter to me the child would not have been my "gestational" child. He/she would have been my child none the less. My love knows no boundries and all children are precious. Unfortunately, there was great difficulty in conceiving and she didn't/couldn't make her dream a reality, but I would still to this day stand by my partner and do whatever was needed to support a pregnancy. __________________ Sweet Georgia Peach

08-20-2012, 05:50 PM	#6
always2late Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: m'lady Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 2,000 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,834 Thanked 6,231 Times in 1,462 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Ok, I hate sounding like a downer, but just wanted to insert my 2 cents here. Anyone considering starting a family where one partner is going to be the actual bio-mother of the child needs to consult an attorney. I know we don't like to think of a relationship ending when we are in love...but, as we know, it does happen. Luckily, I have never been in this situation, but I have friends who have been...and they have had to deal not only with the heartbreak of losing their partner, but with the complete devastation of losing their child as well. __________________ Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there ~ Rumi

08-20-2012, 05:50 PM	#7
Bard Family Man How Do You Identify?: TG Male Preferred Pronoun?: Masculine ones Relationship Status: She just gets me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ..... Posts: 2,828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,997 Thanked 12,786 Times in 2,431 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I have a daughter with my EX she is the biomom I never missed a appointment from insemination to birth I was the first to hold Goose and she is as much my daughter as my EX's and if anyone questions that I can tell you she will fight you. I have visitation with my daughter and I pay child support. during her pregnancy I did whatever I could just like and partner would I guess it was more her family that sees Goose as theirs not related to me and her mother has said that to me and to Goose however MY family sees Goose as part of our family no questions asked, we had picked a donor who was close to my ethnic background and really Goose looks more like my family then she does the EX's. __________________ This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! Give yourself over to absolute pleasure. Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh - erotic nightmares beyond any measure, and sensual daydreams to treasure forever. Can't you just see it? Don't dream it, be it.

08-25-2012, 11:28 PM	#15
mustangjeano Member How Do You Identify?: old school stonebutch, Queer TG butch, ranch hand Preferred Pronoun?: he Relationship Status: single, not looking Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northern Ca. Posts: 1,088 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,459 Thanked 1,029 Times in 361 Posts Rep Power: 15314315	Parenting Back in 1985 my partner and I decided to have a baby. She was concieved at home (I did the insemination) The only legal thing available to us in Ca. at that time was a co-parenting agreement contract drawn up by a lawyer. When our daughter was almost three her Mom decided that she was in love with someone else and I began a very challenging role as the non custodial parent--I really love my daughter and was determined to stay in her life as her "other Mom" There were lots of heartaches such as taking her back to her Mom after my weekend and knowing the situation at her Mom's house was not healthy for my daughter but I had to suck it up because I had no legal rights other than visitation every other weekend. I am not saying that I would not do it all again just sharing how my journey has been. There have been lots of great times with my daughter and we are very close. She and her husband just gave her Mom and I a beautiful grandaughter. Just my story. __________________ "Your outlook affects your outcome". John Paul Warren

08-20-2012, 05:36 PM	#5
jac Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: butch stone Preferred Pronoun?: masculine ones work best... Relationship Status: ♥ engaged to spritz ♥ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: bangor, maine Posts: 3,344 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 20,720 Thanked 16,492 Times in 2,972 Posts Rep Power: 0	I had an ex that wanted desperately to have a baby. I was willing and we tried artificial insemination several times. It just wasn't happening. I was all for it, though, so that she could experience what I had. And as for my current relationship... If she wanted to I would be right there in support of her choices and desires, and I would take care of her in any and all ways that I could. Myself I have had children already and physically cannot have anymore, nor do I want to. It was an expereince I am all set with now...

08-20-2012, 05:51 PM	#8
stephfromMIT Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Troll Preferred Pronoun?: she her Relationship Status: engaged to my fiancee Amanda Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: cambridge MA Posts: 230 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 703 Thanked 408 Times in 143 Posts Rep Power: 0	2late-We will be legally married, so I assume divorce law would be applicable.

08-20-2012, 05:53 PM	#9
spritzerJ Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: Queer (gender), female (biological marker) Preferred Pronoun?: she will work as a default. Relationship Status: engaged to jac until 8/10/14 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Maine Posts: 3,154 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,307 Thanked 15,802 Times in 2,905 Posts Rep Power: 0	Hi Steph... Gestational parent of one girl, known around the planet as The General. I always wondered more about Alpha Femmes, so word to the wise... careful what you wonder about... I was in a committed relationship with a woman (we did the as close to marriage event as we could) when The General was conceived. We have a known donor who will identity release when The General is 18 or she figures it out. I can not speak to the non gestational parent feelings really well. I will note several things that was important in our journey. 1. Read the books on lesbian conception. I read it, she didn't. It can cause friction. Be sure to laugh about the process and even what you read. Parenting requires a sense of humor. 2. Be present physically during insemination. Scheduling the whole ball of wax can be tricky. I told her the book said it was important but she decided to skip out early and well it really, really upset her later. She felt disconnected in a way she attributed to her not staying the whole time and not coming the 2nd round. Like I could just do it with out her. Which was a terrible guilt I could not ease. 3. Enjoy the pregnancy and all the craziness. My ex wasn't perfect but she was while I was pregnant. She put up with a lot and had a great sense of humor. Sure it was trying at times but I am very grateful now for her understanding. 4. I obsessed about the whole conceiving thing. It was hard to not try a cycle because I got so stressed out but we had to take a break. If you are a known obsessor make a plan to support the non obsessor or both of you in the process. Other notables... 1. We have a great agreement with our known donor. It has morphed a little bit and everyone is okay with the changes. His mom knows The General, we didn't expect that even though we talked about it. She is accepting of her non grandparent just special person who loves The general role. We are very lucky. 2. We did try with a sperm bank a couple times. That process was tricky and well in retrospect a hoot. 3. We inseminated at home. There was no reason to believe I was going to need assistance getting pregnant (assistance other than the to go cup). There are legal things to consider but no amount of having a doctor do it was going to save us a hassle and heart ache if our donor decided to change his mind.

09-02-2012, 11:24 AM	#16
G Snap! Member How Do You Identify?: gay. I'm very happy, thank you! Preferred Pronoun?: Miss Relationship Status: Chefhmboyrd's seeing eye blonde Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Nashvegas Posts: 253 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 412 Thanked 1,109 Times in 229 Posts Rep Power: 6596928	interesting Good thread, very interesting! This is a big topic between many same-sex couples, and I have seen this make or break relationships. I am pleased to see the couples, who have decided to have a baby together, but are no longer a couple, are able to keep both the child's and non-biological parent's relationship intact. The cases The_Lady_Snow referenced are in your favor if you both marry in Massachusetts and have your child there. If you are familiar with laws, you know the courts have to rule the same way in any future similar cases. Fortunately Massachusetts has their sh*t together. If I may say so without intent to offend anyone; they separate church and state, and recognize marriage as a legal contract, not a union made before god. It leaves me asking: Would this be something noted on a prenump agreement?