The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[DamonK]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

DamonK,

Thank you for your examples of how you get treated as a victim. I can empathize with you, for sure. Not for exactly the same things of course, but for the same types of things.

Two of my four kids decided to pursue ASL throughout high school, yet couldn't get a "language" credit for the classes. It was considered an elective.

Which made me go round and round with the schools.

I learn from the kids, because well, I want to know. I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to want people to learn a few things in sign. If we can learn "su casa es mi casa" "parlez vous francais" (don't judge my spelling) then we can learn some sign.

Do you use a tty service for phone?

Do people REALLY think you want to make out with them because you are reading lips? Seriously? I don't think I'd react well to that.

Is there a reason your parents didn't learn much ASL?

No tty.

My new hearing aid (3 yrs old by now) is digital rather than analog. I have mastered the art of holding phone just right to my microphone.

I don't think I'd know how to use a tty.

Yeah, quite often people think I wanna make out with them. For me, being deaf, it takes me a second longer to process whatever's being said. So I may be staring at lips a bit longer.... Not intentional. Just processing.

I never knew why my parents didn't learn ASL.

The only things I have that make it obvious is my hearing aid...batteries...dogs that bark if someone knocks or doorbell rings and closed captioning on my tv.

I do good with my cell phone.

I can't hear on house phone.

My parents are insistent I'm normal. They raised me to believe I could do anything I wanted. I'm not saying they did wrong. Not by any means. However, it was a slap in the face to discover I COULDN'T do anything I wanted. I had limitations. I had to adapt to them.

Example: I wanted to be a criminal profiler for FBI. Can't get in FBI.
Example: I wanted to be in the armed forces. Can't do that either.
Example: I wanted to be a surgical technologist. I can't do that either! (I can't read lips through surgical masks!)
Example: I wanted to be a teacher. Um, if I need an interpreter to be a student, how am I gonna be a teacher?
Example: I was a music major. Yes, I know how to play an instrument. I played quite well. I can't hear the difference between flat and sharp without other instruments or a metrodome.

Limitations. They suck.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by DamonK

No tty.

My new hearing aid (3 yrs old by now) is digital rather than analog. I have mastered the art of holding phone just right to my microphone.

I don't think I'd know how to use a tty.

Yeah, quite often people think I wanna make out with them. For me, being deaf, it takes me a second longer to process whatever's being said. So I may be staring at lips a bit longer.... Not intentional. Just processing.

I never knew why my parents didn't learn ASL.

The only things I have that make it obvious is my hearing aid...batteries...dogs that bark if someone knocks or doorbell rings and closed captioning on my tv.

I do good with my cell phone.

I can't hear on house phone.

My parents are insistent I'm normal. They raised me to believe I could do anything I wanted. I'm not saying they did wrong. Not by any means. However, it was a slap in the face to discover I COULDN'T do anything I wanted. I had limitations. I had to adapt to them.

Example: I wanted to be a criminal profiler for FBI. Can't get in FBI.
Example: I wanted to be in the armed forces. Can't do that either.
Example: I wanted to be a surgical technologist. I can't do that either! (I can't read lips through surgical masks!)
Example: I wanted to be a teacher. Um, if I need an interpreter to be a student, how am I gonna be a teacher?
Example: I was a music major. Yes, I know how to play an instrument. I played quite well. I can't hear the difference between flat and sharp without other instruments or a metrodome.

Limitations. They suck.

I hear you about limitations. I am ever hopeful that we are going to keep pushing new legislation that opens more doors for people with different abilities.

Except for the surgical tech/mask thing I don't think it's right that you cannot do anything else on that list. Even the surgical tech job could be possible with some kind of compensation maybe? I don't know.

What instrument do you play?

Oh, an the tty thing. They give you a phone that looks like this:



and people call you through a tty operator, who types what they are saying onto a screen for you. you either type or speak your responses.

not too awful, and i'm pretty sure you can pick up a phone just about anywhere here in the states and get a tty operator.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by christie0918

SF -
.... If anything, in my son's case, he is held to a higher standard with me. Its my job to ensure he has the skill set necessary for the world with the same rules/laws/expectations as those without his challenges.

I use the *lens* as part of my process in trying to figure out how he thinks. How he came to whatever place he is in - because for me, if I can figure out his perspective (which is usually so very different than mine) then I have a starting point to address the specific issue.

I don't think this is coddling him or giving him the false sense of security you mention. This is, through lots of trial and error, what works best for him. He doesn't get to be an asswipe any more than anyone else does - probably less because I never want him to use his challenges as a crutch/excuse or pass.

This is an example of awesome parenting, imo, and NOT head-patting AT ALL!!

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Plato

My experience has been to not say anything about having been on a respirator for 2 months and not having enough oxygen to my brain, which changed me physically, emotionally, and mentally.
Some changes have been for the good. I just celebrated 11 years clean and sober, have a loving spouse and terrific custom-made family, and am on the edge of completing a 4 year college program for a B.S. degree.
Changes that are not so good is mainly that my bio-family doesn't recognize that inside challenges are also "disabilities". {By that I mean that my information processing is very different from the "norm".} They constantly expect and remind me of what I "should" be doing, without taking into account of what I am ABLE to do. It isn't for the lack of ambition, it's because I'm aware of what I'm capable of doing.

My CM-family learn and help each other to overcome our challenges, and help each other with things that are difficult or impossible. For example, the 12 yo supervises me with knifes, tells me to be careful when we are walking, and everyone knows we can not keep a supply of glassware because I tend to forget that I can't hang on to them, which results in broken glass.

Head patting is for sissies. Expect more and get more.

When I hear people say, "Well, He/She was drunk ... {fill in the blank}", it makes me cringe, cause that's the same kind of "pass" being referred to in this thread. To say, it's ok for someone to treat someone else in a crappy way because "He/She is ... {fill in the blank}", not only excuses bad/undesirable behavior, but sets a horrible example for the young ones. Children need to see adults treating each other compassionately and fairly.

Thanks honey. In case anyone didn't know we're married, Plato and I.

It was kismet that two people with brain injuries found each other. We were paralyzed on opposite sides of our bodies, so together we are a complete and functioning right and left.

I know that we both get our different abilities dismissed by our families. In some ugly ways.

I know that you and the kids understand that I cannot taste or smell. You all try to have food ideas that involve texture. The children know that the loss of two of my senses heightened the ones I have left. So if a stranger were to observe our family eat potato chips it would probably come off as very fucking strange. Everyone gingerly tries to fish a chip out of the bag without making crinkling noises. OR they dump them all out and get rid of the bag FAST so as to end the crinkling.

Noises hurt my head and make me feel very very angry. Paper is the worst I think.

We all take care of each other but nobody "gets away" with anything. Ever. We have a tough crowd. The kids have to have patience with two parents operating on limited short term and long term memory. So they are responsible for writing stuff down. Otherwise I am going to get mad and insist "I never said that".

Conversely, they both know how to use those very things to their advantage and will "work it". Sigh.

Thank god for chosen family.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by DamonK

I had limitations. I had to adapt to them.

Example: I wanted to be a teacher. Um, if I need an interpreter to be a student, how am I gonna be a teacher?

Limitations. They suck.

I think that after completing your school-work, you would be a awesome teacher, because you would know how to motivate those who think they are "unabled".

Your life experience is unique and priceless.

[christie]

Originally Posted by Plato

This is an example of awesome parenting, imo, and NOT head-patting AT ALL!!

Thank you for your kind words, but I didn't post it to have any sort of recognition. I wanted to talk about how I process with DA's and how it might actually not be fair to the nonDA's - because I don't give them the same amount of energy in trying to figure out their reality.

Am I being preferrential in some way - holding the DA to the same expectation as a nonDA but allowing more processing? Its something for me to look at, for certain.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

We all take care of each other but nobody "gets away" with anything. Ever. We have a tough crowd.
Thank god for chosen family.

Plus, our chosen family has grown by one for a few weeks.
She is learning some patience skills by osmosis .....

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Thank you for your kind words, but I didn't post it to have any sort of recognition. I wanted to talk about how I process with DA's and how it might actually not be fair to the nonDA's - because I don't give them the same amount of energy in trying to figure out their reality.

Am I being preferrential in some way - holding the DA to the same expectation as a nonDA but allowing more processing? Its something for me to look at, for certain.

As you said, nonDA's have a complete set of things that would garner room for processing as well.

I don't have an exact answer for you. Before we are DA or non DA we are human, susceptible to human error.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=The_Lady_Snow;151869]Ms Apoca I am gonna jump off your post.

So what does one do when you have made it clear, a THOUSAND times with patience, with kindness and the person still does not respect those boundaries?

Do I just chalk it up to the fact they have a disability and they are gonna use that as an excuse time and time again?

Curious how you would handle this cause I don't have a soft buffer like yourself?

TheLadySnow

i was thinking apocalipstic's post was really good [to me] about her ability to understand posts, over the years, which may have been written by DA, and NT moderated.

your question, although it's to apocalipstic, i would like to respond to, please. in my own experiences, i could ask the very same thing about NT's who disrespect boundaries time and time again- do i chalk it up to being the 'majority?"

this is very interesting, because i sometimes have wondered if NT's - DA or not - notice certain things, which can get lost during my translation to someone not on the spectrum, whenever i try to explain what i just heard and/or saw - and these NT words/behaviours can happen rapid-fire.

[SuperFemme]

[quote=violaine;151949]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Ms Apoca I am gonna jump off your post.

So what does one do when you have made it clear, a THOUSAND times with patience, with kindness and the person still does not respect those boundaries?

Do I just chalk it up to the fact they have a disability and they are gonna use that as an excuse time and time again?

Curious how you would handle this cause I don't have a soft buffer like yourself?

TheLadySnow

i was thinking apocalipstic's post was really good [to me] about her ability to understand posts, over the years, which may have been written by DA, and NT moderated.

your question, although it's to apocalipstic, i would like to respond to, please. in my own experiences, i could ask the very same thing about NT's who disrespect boundaries time and time again- do i chalk it up to being the 'majority?"

this is very interesting, because i sometimes have wondered if NT's notice certain things, which can get lost during my translation to someone not on the spectrum, whenever i try to explain what i just heard and/or saw - and these NT words/behaviours can happen rapid-fire.

What is an NT?
What do you mean by "being the majority"?

[christie]

[quote=SuperFemme;151952]

Originally Posted by violaine

What is an NT?
What do you mean by "being the majority"?

NT = Neuro-Typical

[SuperFemme]

[quote=christie0918;151956]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

NT = Neuro-Typical

ah. thank you

[Corkey]

Neuro typical are the majority of people with brains that function in a typical fashion. I hate using normal, cause there are all kinds of normal.

[SuperFemme]

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

[Corkey]

Sometimes I think it does take being repetitive, to the point of pulling ones hair out. Some just don't have the capacity to remember the social cues that the rest of us NT's take for granted. I know my wife has to go thru this on a daily basis when she is at work, and that is with NT folks, not just the individuals she has to take care of. Do they get a pass, no because their behavior is still in question and it is addressed. I do think personally that NT folks have a greater responsibility for patience. Or not, this requires one remove the offending person from their life.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;151967]What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

yes, and i am DA, and am participating in this thread topic as such, addressing the very same thing - fairness - from every angle.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

Is it bad to have a different set of expectations? In all respect, I am not trying to be negative.

I agree that pity is bad, and treating with kid gloves is bad....but what about different types of communication where someone might read like an asshole to the average person, when really they are not trying to be an asshole at all?

I have pretty much stopped mentioning when someone is AS as an explanation for behavior because the answer always is..."so and so is not stupid", then I feel stupid for even bringing it up because the post was clear as day to me as not assholish and I must be stupid to be able to understand it clearly.

The difference between many people who are Autistic and on the Spectrum is that we don't see ourselves as having a disability. We see ourselves as having a different way of being which some of us even see as being superior (hence the problem I think)...and I know this can cause anger in Neurotypical people. I have experienced it myself.

Heck NO I don't want pity, but I don't want to be like everyone else either, except for maybe you SuperFemme! xoxoxxo

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Is it bad to have a different set of expectations? In all respect, I am not trying to be negative.

I agree that pity is bad, and treating with kid gloves is bad....but what about different types of communication where someone might read like an asshole to the average person, when really they are not trying to be an asshole at all?

I have pretty much stopped mentioning when someone is AS as an explanation for behavior because the answer always is..."so and so is not stupid", then I feel stupid for even bringing it up because the post was clear as day to me as not assholish and I must be stupid to be able to understand it clearly.

The difference between many people who are Autistic and on the Spectrum is that we don't see ourselves as having a disability. We see ourselves as having a different way of being which some of us even see as being superior (hence the problem I think)...and I know this can cause anger in Neurotypical people. I have experienced it myself.

Heck NO I don't want pity, but I don't want to be like everyone else either, except for maybe you SuperFemme! xoxoxxo

I am not talking about expectations, although I do think that if we are going to take the time to understand and communicate with people of different abilities that we can take an extra moment and give that same consideration to NT people too if we want to.

I am speaking to a different set of rules/consequences. Really, even if consequences are on a case by case basis (which isn't a bad thing and is my understanding this happens across the board here by mods/owners) at then end of the day are the rules different?

If so, then how is that empowering and a positive thing?

I don't have autism/AS so I don't really know what things look like for somebody that does. Since you know maybe you can tell me if you would feel ok with having a different set of rules than the rest of the world?

Because I am super interested in hearing from ALL kinds of differently abled people.

If someone doesn't consider themselves as such, I respect that. Who am I to label? As for you bringing it up and the response being "that person is not stupid"? That is not a response from a person who wants to communicate. That is a response from a person who is deeply invested in being "right".

I get pretty fumed at the expectation of stupidity in relation to being differently abled. I want to punch people that say "You're so smart, I'd never know you had a TBI".

Instead? I try to educate. If it's a moot point, I don't try very hard.

[MrSunshine]

Passes. I don't get them or give them.

[Apocalipstic]

Ah, now I get it! Rules.

No, I do not think there should be a different set of rules. The TOS is clearly stated.

Do I think we should try a little harder to understand each other? Yes! I know there is not a word for phobia or an "ism" for people on the spectrum, but I see it in action by well meaning people like we do racism, sexism, DAism, sizeism, etc.

We hold to what is familiar.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am not talking about expectations, although I do think that if we are going to take the time to understand and communicate with people of different abilities that we can take an extra moment and give that same consideration to NT people too if we want to.

I am speaking to a different set of rules/consequences. Really, even if consequences are on a case by case basis (which isn't a bad thing and is my understanding this happens across the board here by mods/owners) at then end of the day are the rules different?

If so, then how is that empowering and a positive thing?

I don't have autism/AS so I don't really know what things look like for somebody that does. Since you know maybe you can tell me if you would feel ok with having a different set of rules than the rest of the world?

Because I am super interested in hearing from ALL kinds of differently abled people.

If someone doesn't consider themselves as such, I respect that. Who am I to label? As for you bringing it up and the response being "that person is not stupid"? That is not a response from a person who wants to communicate. That is a response from a person who is deeply invested in being "right".

I get pretty fumed at the expectation of stupidity in relation to being differently abled. I want to punch people that say "You're so smart, I'd never know you had a TBI".

Instead? I try to educate. If it's a moot point, I don't try very hard.