2020 Presidential Election

[BullDog]

Here's an op-ed from a Republican strategist:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...vou-story.html

I agree with this 1000% percent. And yes most Democrats - especially Progressives - will hate it, but I think he is right. Spot on. Democrats had better be ready for a bloodbath against Trump and go for the jugular on the Mueller Report phony Barr cover up - otherwise, we just look like wimps.

[Kätzchen]

I wholeheartedly believe the author of Bulldog's article: This is no doubt a Culture War of epic proportions.

This is the defining moment of American Society: Do we keep letting White Nationalism's Toxic Culture reign supreme or do we hold all of them accountable by ousting every single one of them from their comfortable beds of proverbial sin, which places American Society and societies around the world in danger of annihilation?


I'm all for seeing them being kicked off the cliff of the proverbial planet, not just booted to the curb.


Thanks for the timely article, Bulldog.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Here's an op-ed from a Republican strategist:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...vou-story.html

I agree with this 1000% percent. And yes most Democrats - especially Progressives - will hate it, but I think he is right. Spot on. Democrats had better be ready for a bloodbath against Trump and go for the jugular on the Mueller Report phony Barr cover up - otherwise, we just look like wimps.

Some quotes:

Trump may not be smarter than a toaster oven, but he’s going to be surrounded by people with brains, money and an existential desire to win.

They know that boutique policies in a Walmart nation won’t sell.

<snip>

Winning the AOC primary is all the rage, but in poll after poll voters tell us what they want their elected leaders to talk about and focus on. Even the big-picture issues Democrats think are game-changing winners often come with massive electoral trade-offs.

<snip>

Talk more like Mike Rowe, and less like AOC, and watch the people who switched from Obama to Trump take another look. A little more Bubba and a little less stern-faced, super-woke speech commissar.

<snip>

The notion that they have to choose between having a positive, progressive vision and beating Trump six ways to Sunday is simply false. They need to give Trump hell and put forward their own ideas. But the ideas had damn well not be subject to any simplistic left-wing litmus test.

<snip>

This is not a nation of socialists, no matter how far and how fast millennials are leaning left.

Buttigieg got in a whole lot of trouble over the weekend for using the term "coastal elites"

Spare us the lectures from Democratic candidates about how Democratic voters are the problem

If you thought we were past the tiresome “How can Democrats appeal to Trump-loving Trump voters in Trump Country?” conversation, I’m going to disappoint you. And I’d like to use some recent comments from South Bend, Ind., Mayor and presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg to illustrate how problematic the discussion among Democrats is when it comes to thinking about different areas of the country and what kind of people live where.

<snip>

There’s a bit more to the discussion, but it goes on in that vein. Buttigieg’s intentions are good, since he wants to promote mutual understanding and common purpose. But he frames the problem as one that stems from condescending liberals who don’t sufficiently appreciate the lives and perspectives of people in the Midwest. In other words, the divide that exists is the fault of liberals alone. If they could just do more to understand the people who wind up voting for someone like Donald Trump, that would be the path to achieving unity.

<snip>

Just to be clear, I'm not saying you can't find liberals who are condescending toward conservatives and the places where they congregate, because you can. And resentment over that condescension is a powerful political force, in no small part because Republicans and conservative media spend so much time telling conservatives that elitist liberals are looking down on them.

But you can also find lots of conservatives who are contemptuous toward liberals and the places where they live. Yet if a Democrat ever insulted the “heartland,” there’d be hell to pay, while Republicans insult heavily Democratic places all the time.

i fought with a whole bunch of tweeters online about this bc the comments to the WaPo article were full of ppl saying "I'm a coastal elite and my state has farms, how dare he!"

But within a few minutes you also had stuff like "rural voters don't even know what's going on in the next county" and "all the red states care about is if they can still marry their cousins" and, like, that was what Buttigieg was talking about.

Every time the Texas lege does something heinous there is a whole flood of blue-staters saying "why don't they secede already, who needs them?"

The attitude that sees the flyover states as cousin-marrying bumpkins is what he was talking about, but the commenters chose to interpret it as narrowly as possible and claim he accused them of low awareness of heartland issues.

There is a huge swath of Trumpers that don't car about anything except "owning the libs" and every time "the libs" play dumb about their snottiness, we feed that movement.

[dark_crystal]

i see i typo and i don't car

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Here's an op-ed from a Republican strategist:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...vou-story.html

I agree with this 1000% percent. And yes most Democrats - especially Progressives - will hate it, but I think he is right. Spot on. Democrats had better be ready for a bloodbath against Trump and go for the jugular on the Mueller Report phony Barr cover up - otherwise, we just look like wimps.

RE: the Op-Ed.

I couldn't have said it better but I've come close a few times and been beaten half to death in here for having said it.

Glad to have you back, BullDog

[Martina]

I'm sorry, but I truly truly wish Texas would secede. It can be one of those Mexican countries.

[Martina]

A left leaning populism is going to resonate more with disenchanted Trumpists than another corporate Dem. They would not have voted Trump in if they wanted more if that.

Mainstream Dems flatter themselves if they think their recycled centrist politics appeal to anyone but themselves. They do not.

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by Martina

I'm sorry, but I truly truly wish Texas would secede. It can be one of those Mexican countries.

Apologies and not wishing to be rude, but does Mexico have more than one country?

[BullDog]

I think Progressives are just as tone deaf thinking people want what they want.

I agree with the Op-Ed that Sanders (and also Warren) would lose in a 45-state wipeout.

There are not enough young people or previously non-registered voters who ever vote enough to save the day - but keep trying it is worth it. Just don't expect that to do it.

I think trying to win over the true Trump voters is a complete losing proposition too. The true Trump believers are never going to vote with us

It really is about those in the center, although you don't necessarily have to appeal with re-hashed ideas I don't think. They are the ones who actually vote like clockwork.

The road to the Presidency currently runs through the Rust Belt. I don't believe lying to them that we are going to bring their jobs back is a good idea since it is a lie. We aren't rolling back the clock to the 1950s, and it's not women's fault, gays fault, people of color's fault, etc. that people don't have jobs and its divisive.

People can rail against the trade policies all they want, and things probably could be better but we live in a global economy and that's never going back. There are countries everywhere that can do things better than us and cheaper than us. So unless you want to overthrow capitalism, it is what it is.

I do believe workers need to be re-educated for the new economy but it is also true that there is plenty of "blue collar work" that could be done where you don't need a Master's degree in public policy from Harvard to get the job done. Our roads and bridges and buildings are all crumbling and in disrepair. If people are going to run screaming from the room about big government programs for it then figure out a way to do it in partnership with private businesses. Whatever. There are plenty of people who want to work and plenty of work that could be done. I don't see why it couldn't be figured out.

[cathexis]

Folks from the Rust Belt won't "cotton" to being lied to again. They're gonna be very cautious this time around. Don't think Trump will fool the region again. People from the Rust Belt have a real thing about being labeled as gullible.
Those jobs stolen from Carrier in IN still leave a bad taste in many Mid-Western mouths.
Not less Harvard speak and more Bubba. Less of either, and more common sense. Maybe a little left politics may be good medicine right now.

[C0LLETTE]

Mayor Pete: "I have enormous respect or her (Hillary Clinton) ".

There you have the guts and courage that would have won the 2016 election for Democrats instead of the tepid chickenshit crap that made them run backwards from a strong female cause she couldn't (maybe ) tick off every box. And they let Republicans pounded that into voters' heads.

The Democrats need to get on the offensive; stop eating their young, their old, their female candidates, and anyone else the Republicans convince them to eat.

Roy Cohn understood it.
Donald Trump understands it.
Democrats are still wandering around the May Pole with fairy sparkler sticks up their asses.

[Martina]

Mayor Pete was backtracking after some Clinton minion attacked him for pointing out mistakes she made early in her 2016 campaign. It was idiotic. He pointed out how her campaign had tried the America is already great, there's nothing wrong here, stuff. Remember when Obama was stumping for her saying America was already great, that there are only "pockets" that haven't benefitted from the recovery. They stopped that pretty fast when it didn't play and when Bernie started kicking their ass.

So the former Clinton campaign staff person accused Mayor Pete of not thinking America is great, implying he's not patriotic yadda yadda. That's obviously not what Pete meant, and the asshole Clintonite wouldn't have cared if that HAD been what was meant. He was stung by the criticism of their losing campaign and struck back with that insincere manipulative bullshit. What a fucking asshole. So Pete backtracked saying oh we all love Hillary. (Yeah, I bet Mayor Pete loves Hillary as much as I do.)

[BullDog]

Yes, wish we could just be unapologetic and just go with our strength.

I would love to see Kamala Harris' tough prosecutorial style go up against Trump for a year and leave him in a puddle. Why yes I am a woman, a person of color, well-educated, tough (call me a bitch that's fine with me) and have big policy ideas for education and other things, and you are bumbling, lying, corrupt fool. Now, let's get back to the American people and what's best for them, shall we.

Lol, I still remember Jeff Sessions playing the country bumpkin and saying how she was making him "nervous."

Yeah, you should be.

Sadly, I don't know if America is "ready" for her, Sanders, or anyone else different than usual. Ugh. We shall see. Dems better go hard on the Mueller report. We just need to beat Trump whatever it takes.

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Mayor Pete: "I have enormous respect or her (Hillary Clinton) ".

There you have the guts and courage that would have won the 2016 election for Democrats instead of the tepid chickenshit crap that made them run backwards from a strong female cause she couldn't (maybe ) tick off every box. And they let Republicans pounded that into voters' heads.

The Democrats need to get on the offensive; stop eating their young, their old, their female candidates, and anyone else the Republicans convince them to eat.

Roy Cohn understood it.
Donald Trump understands it.
Democrats are still wandering around the May Pole with fairy sparkler sticks up their asses.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Apologies and not wishing to be rude, but does Mexico have more than one country?

It's an allusion to the Fox News gaffe.

[kittygrrl]

I think Dems made a big mistake believing everything hinged on Mueller...he was there looking for crimes..collusion isn't a crime ...and i think impeachment would be another huge mistake..it's too close to the election...the Congress needs to hold hearings and let people listen and decide for themselves...no matter how bad it gets..keep our cool and be reasonable and listen to their people back home...fyi-NOBODY back home really cares about Russia's influence much...that's just a fact...we are just too busy trying to keep ahead of our bills and kids.....most are not political junkies like the people in this thread..that's intellectuals...and most are just regular Joes..sad fact i guess but thats real life...

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

I think Dems made a big mistake believing everything hinged on Mueller...he was there looking for crimes..collusion isn't a crime ...and i think impeachment would be another huge mistake..it's too close to the election...the Congress needs to hold hearings and let people listen and decide for themselves...no matter how bad it gets..keep our cool and be reasonable and listen to their people back home...fyi-NOBODY back home really cares about Russia's influence much...that's just a fact...we are just too busy trying to keep ahead of our bills and kids.....most are not political junkies like the people in this thread..that's intellectuals...and most are just regular Joes..sad fact i guess but thats real life...

kittygrrl- Seems impeachment has been your LAST option all along. We both know what a can of worms could open with Pence's history of homophobia and "right to life" positions. Behind that placid demeanor is a man aggressive about his issues.
We don't need to shear that wolf.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

I'm sorry, but I truly truly wish Texas would secede. It can be one of those Mexican countries.

I'm fine with becoming Mexican, but an independent Texas would be The Handmaids Tale. 40% of us are blue. Another huge chunk are disfranchised and/or undocumented. The majority of Texas's inhabitants would suffer.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I'm fine with becoming Mexican, but an independent Texas would be The Handmaids Tale. 40% of us are blue. Another huge chunk are disfranchised and/or undocumented. The majority of Texas's inhabitants would suffer.

If it were realistic to get rid of Texas, I think I might sacrifice y'all. You could move to Georgia and turn it from purple to blue. Just a thought. I would so love to say bye bye to Texas. Just as a teacher -- the effect Texas has had on text books alone. Texas is the big stupid bully of American culture. Proudly ignorant, but unlike say, Alabama or Oklahoma, influential. And truly don't many Texans actually want to secede. My response to that is "Bye, Felicia."

[charley]

Trump is forgetting words, couldn't remember the word "origins", so said "oranges" - twice... also said that his father was born in Germany, which was false, since his father was born in USA, it was his gf who was born in Germany (if I remember correctly), early signs of dementia ... - his reward, which he has done to himself

so, do you really think he will be able to run for a 2nd term?

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

If it were realistic to get rid of Texas, I think I might sacrifice y'all. You could move to Georgia and turn it from purple to blue. Just a thought. I would so love to say bye bye to Texas. Just as a teacher -- the effect Texas has had on text books alone. Texas is the big stupid bully of American culture. Proudly ignorant, but unlike say, Alabama or Oklahoma, influential. And truly don't many Texans actually want to secede. My response to that is "Bye, Felicia."

We're America's own Saudi Arabia. Primitive people made incidentally rich and powerful by a mineral coincidence, behaving primitively with great power.

My mom is a pro-life Southern Baptist young-Earth creationist, but she was also a 2nd grade teacher and not a fan of the Religious Right takeover of all school boards in the 1980s. She subscribed to their values but she thought they should leave education to educators, felt their decrees on the three R's, at least, if not science lol, should be evidence-based and were not.

But that takeover was a real thing that happened-- the religious right intentionally and methodically focused on infiltrating school boards and those people are all still in place.

The reason i spend an hour each month sitting next to a creepy pro-life Southern Baptist young-Earth creationist Board President is because he was part of that movement and actually got to be mayor, then retired to my board so he can make sure we have creationist materials. We're just lucky he doesn't notice us shelving them under religion and not science. We've had him thirteen years and we could have him thirteen more.

That was a digression.

What i came here to say is that whenever "coastal elites" bag on the red states and someone calls their attention to the always-sizeable percentage of blue voters in those states, there is always someone saying "they should just move, then."

Leaving aside the many reasons why that might not be easy for individuals (disabled parents, for us), it's a terrible idea electorally. The more we concentrate in specific states, the less electoral college votes we have access to.

Anyway--speaking of moving to more progressive places-- Houston is a place of refuge for all of Mississippi's queers, because their parents are quadruple times scarier than ours. We're very fortunate it wasn't them with the oil. Queer Mississippi needs Houston to keep being safe.