Butch Attire & Fashion

[Dance-with-me]

Kelt, thanks for leading the way! Some sharp-looking fall casual wear there!

I hope many others follow your lead...

[Kelt]

This weekend for me is shoe roundup time. Going through and making sure everything is in good repair, cleaned, and polished.

It's pretty amazing what a polish can do and if you haven't done it yourself before it is much easier than you might think. There are, no kidding, hundreds of videos on you tube for a quick lesson and the basic polish, brush, and cloth can be gotten pretty much anywhere from the grocery store to the hardware store. I have also found that around the holidays shoe shine kits are packaged up in nice sets for quite good prices.

Here is an easy brush on/off video good for daily boots



For a high gloss shine just search youtube for spit shine or fire shine.

<edited by Tech Admin at user request>


Another quick and easy update/spiff-up is to replace the laces.
Especially with sport shoes and boots, changing up colors or materials can make it like getting a new pair of shoes, or an accessory to match whatever else you are wearing.

It's in the details.

[Red-Dragon]

you find interesting forums thats for sure lol. clothes for me consists of t-shirt jeans or loose fitting pants really for when i'm off work or going around town and half the time i'm wearing a baseball cap or skate hat if i'm to lazy to style my hair. when i'm meeting up with someone or going out its mostly a button down dress shirt and dress pants (that has a bleach stain thanks to when my grandpa did a surprise laundry day for me). shoes well mostly skate shoes hightops or boots i sway towards the skate shoes with skulls and black boots work i already "dress up" but during the summer its cargo shorts basketball shorts t-shirts and skate shoes or tennis shoes

[Kelt]

Hey all,

I've been out doing a bit of reading and have been finding some really good articles. I thought that rather than re-invent the wheel, I would share some of what I have found in addition to things I will put together myself.

One stumbling block I keep running into is that the kinds of things I enjoy tend to fall into the category of menswear regardless of the gender of the person wearing it. This doesn't bother me in particular but I know it can seem offensive to a lot of folks by the way it is discussed, specifically oriented to men. Bio-guys.

I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so I would like to try something. I find an article I want to share, I go through and tweak the pronouns so that it is more digestible to anyone who wants to read it with out the stumbling blocks.

Now, I didn't write this, so I want to give credit where credit is due and stay kosher with copyright goodies. So, I will only change pronouns and will make any changes in blue, I will also put an active link the original source at the bottom. You should go to this person's website if you like the article because there is a lot more where this comes from.

******************************************

Why Give a Damn About Appearance
BY ANTONIO

Appearances matter in real and fundamental ways that affect a persons daily life – from how they are greeted when meeting others for the first time to whether or not they’ll be harassed while traveling.

A person doesn’t need to stay on top of every passing trend; however they should thinking about their basic appearance every day. Still not convinced it’s worth your time to dress sharp? Here are nine reasons why you should give a damn.

1. Clothing is the primary instrument in creating a positive first impressions
People are superficial, not just as a cultural phenomenon but as a hardwired instinct going all the way back to when our brains needed to make snap judgments on what was a stripy rock and what was a tiger about to eat us. We tend to be done formulating our initial opinion of someone before we’ve actually spoken to them. That means that your clothing is going to have a direct effect on people’s default assumptions of you — the better you’re dressed, the more respect and attention they’re going to automatically give you.

2. Clothing can increases your perceived status among your peers
Even after the first impression is over your clothing can help improve people’s reactions to you. Society is very visually-based, and better-dressed people routinely experience better treatment and service than their sloppier counterparts. Clothing serves as a substitute for character in the eyes of people who don’t know you well enough to judge you by anything else. That may sound superficial, but it’s true whether we think it should be or not. Your appearance may not mean much to you, but it does to the people who see you every day, making it worth caring about.

3. Dressing sharp helps with your confidence
One of the first pieces of advice in self-help books is almost always something along the lines of “Get Your Personal Appearance Under Control!” It’s good advice. People tend to perform better in life when they feel that they deserve to perform better. The automatic assumption that a well-dressed person should be treated with respect works when it’s your reflection in the mirror, too. A few minutes spent spiffing yourself in the mirror before you leave home reinforces the idea that you deserve success and good treatment in your own mind.

4. The requirements of dressing sharp teaches responsibility
As silly as it sounds, caring for your appearance will make you a more responsible person. You wind up keeping track of details like which shoes need to be shined and which shirts need to be ironed, and (unless you live with someone who loves you very much) you usually have to do those things yourself. It reinforces mental habits of attention to detail and planning ahead that translate usefully into any career or skill.

5. Good dressers notices detail in others
Once you start paying attention to details of collar shape, pocket square selection, and all the other little details of dressing well, you start to notice them on other people. And those people are noticing them on you too — expect, once you start really putting some time and effort into your appearance, to start seeing approving nods from other well-dressed people.

<snip>

6. Dressing sharp makes you more useful at work
Doesn’t matter what your job happens to be and who you’re working for, or even if you’re your own boss — if you’re well enough dressed that you can step away from work and into a meeting with a client, customer, or supervisor without advance preparation, you’re more useful. Having the casual, day-to-day presentation to step into any situation and look respectable is a huge advantage in the working world.

7. Colors and patterns speak for you
Once you start to learn more about them, specific colors and patterns begin to display their own unique advantages. Blues convey youth, browns openness and trustworthiness; deep grays somberness and dignity — each can be the best choice for a situation where many other colors would be equally appropriate but not as ideal. And by thinking about colors and patterns in a meaningful way rather than just throwing together anything that doesn’t clash too badly you may save yourself from being the person whose tie keeps seeming to ripple on TV someday…


8. Specific clothing pieces make statements about you
Uniforms and semi-uniform looks like the doctor’s white coat are obvious symbols of the wearer’s status or role. More subtle effects can convey nearly as much detailed information for a person who takes their time to plan the outfit well. From a bolo tie advertising a reckless, cowboy attitude to a pinstriped suit in the colors of a favorite baseball team, clothes can proclaim everything from your profession to your passions — or both at once.

9. Good looking people call the shots
When all’s said and done, the best reason to take time with your clothing and appearance is to take charge of your life. Well-dressed people have already taken the way the world sees them into their own hands, and the added respectability and authority people afford them allows them to call the shots in group situations as well. Giving a damn about your appearance is a way of caring how much control you have over your own life — not just over what color of tie to wear this morning.

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The original article can be found here. It does use male pronouns, I happen to think the information is genderless. My opinion.

This is the butch attire thread. There are as many ways to look butch as there are ways to interpret the word, we all carry it our own way. I would love to hear what others think about the subject.

Ideas, resources, stumbling blocks, you name it. I bet it would be interesting to discuss.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Kelt

This is the butch attire thread. There are as many ways to look butch as there are ways to interpret the word, we all carry it our own way. I would love to hear what others think about the subject.

Ideas, resources, stumbling blocks, you name it. I bet it would be interesting to discuss.

Regardless of what department or store one's clothing is purchased from, I believe the key factor is feeling good about how we appear. When we feel good about what we are wearing, we are more comfortable, we come across as more confident, and are more likely to be listened to. Paying attention to personal grooming speaks volumes about who we are, and increases our chances of being seen, for all of the right reasons. Ultimately, I think its most important being comfortable in our skin, but perhaps that is another thread.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by Liam

Regardless of what department or store one's clothing is purchased from, I believe the key factor is feeling good about how we appear. When we feel good about what we are wearing, we are more comfortable, we come across as more confident, and are more likely to be listened to. Paying attention to personal grooming speaks volumes about who we are, and increases our chances of being seen, for all of the right reasons. Ultimately, I think its most important being comfortable in our skin, but perhaps that is another thread.

I think you are absolutely right. It doesn't matter which area one selects from, I get things from women's, men's, and even kid's departments. Especially in less structured or tailored garments it is very hard to tell any difference in a lot of cases.

It is about how we feel about ourselves and how we want to present ourselves to the world. This could just as easily be about femmes. This is butch attire and the vast majority of us are biological women (at least at some point). It is about personal style, fit, and fun.

Personal grooming is a big part of it too. I have seen the recent threads about lingerie and about morning routines in the femme zone. I thought it would be fun to have this counterpart in the butch zone. I didn't start it, but thought a bump was in order.

All aspects of butch presentation should be welcome here.

[Metro]

For what it's worth... my personal Butch Fashion Equation looks something like this:

Fade Haircut + Pullover Knit Shirt w/ Collar + Black or Denim Jeans + Sturdy Shoes/Boots + Stainless Accessories i.e. Belt/Watch/Earrings + Tailored Coat + Cap + Messenger Bag = Feelin' Good


Reasonable facsimile of current winter shoe/boot rotation:


Dress Oxford





Dress Boot





Casual Oxford





Hiking Boot






Walking/Athletic Shoe

[Duchess]

Casual or formal, there's nothing sexier than a well groomed Butch!!!!

[Kelt]

This speaks a bit to something I posted a couple of weeks ago.

I know I have been posting about my own interpretation of butch attire, but one thing I'd like to address is fit.

It can be hard to find the things that we want, depending on what we want that actually fits. My own preference is for menswear or what approximates that look to me. I have a bio-female body, sometimes this can pose a problem. I also trend (now a days) on the just one size below what is commonly available in most mens departments. Frequently, this means calling in my tailor to the rescue. Sometimes I just want to find things without going through that extra step, especially if it is for casual everyday wear.

I have found something that helps me is to look at all of the areas and not get hung up on what department it comes from. Due to age and gravity, typically mens clothes are cut closer to what I need, this was not always the case and so today I still try to have an open mind. Case in point, I put a pic of myself here, I cannot say how long it will be there, but it is now.

I this photo I am wearing mens jeans from costco $12, button down shirt from the boys (it fits) school uniform section of a discount store $10, a jacket I found in the women's section of a thrift store $3 and indeed the label says 'LL Bean women'. It is comfy like a hoody or something but I like it better, it has some fun belting and such on the back.

My point being that for casual stuff it is possible to inexpensively put together stuff that fits pretty well and looks better (on me) than sweats. Some can pull that off as athletic, I'm not one of them. By being willing to shop mens, women's, children's, discount and thrift stores. It doesn't have to take a lot of resources or time, just keeping my eyes open.

My thoughts as I was heading out to the movies the other day, (now if I was with someone I would have spiffed up, but I was comfortable)

[princessbelle]

I'm still learning how to buy clothes for my butch. I went to buy some summer clothes for her back in May. Since she buys her clothes in the men's department, i thought well, that's easy. Heck i raised two boys so i thought i knew how to buy "men's" clothes.

But, because she likes those long shorts and i wasn't quite sure about sizes and styles, what i got originally didn't work.

The shorts i got were too big and too baggy and came down way past her knees, actually just above her ankles, and the shirt was stripped and way too long and came down almost to her knees as well. OMG she looked like a 7 year old school boy. It was funny and cute as hell, but didn't work. She's probably gonna kill me for typing about this.

I totally failed my first try. I did take them back. Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works.

I'm getting better but it is truly a learning experience.

Edit: Just realized this is the butch zone. Pardon me if i am intruding. I suppose the name should have given me a head's up. But, i'm really tired, so forgive me.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I'm still learning how to buy clothes for my butch. I went to buy some summer clothes for her back in May. Since she buys her clothes in the men's department, i thought well, that's easy. Heck i raised two boys so i thought i knew how to buy "men's" clothes.

But, because she likes those long shorts and i wasn't quite sure about sizes and styles, what i got originally didn't work.

The shorts i got were too big and too baggy and came down way past her knees, actually just above her ankles, and the shirt was stripped and way too long and came down almost to her knees as well. OMG she looked like a 7 year old school boy. It was funny and cute as hell, but didn't work. She's probably gonna kill me for typing about this.

I totally failed my first try. I did take them back. Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works.

I'm getting better but it is truly a learning experience.

Edit: Just realized this is the butch zone. Pardon me if i am intruding. I suppose the name should have given me a head's up. But, i'm really tired, so forgive me.

Until you get the hang of it and can eyeball things better, put a comfy pair of Bully's shorts on. Shirt too. See how they fit YOU and then, when you go shopping, if you see something you really like, if nothing else you can try it on and see how it hangs in comparison to how her current comfy clothes hang on you. It's like warming up the car for her, but with panties involved!

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Until you get the hang of it and can eyeball things better, put a comfy pair of Bully's shorts on. Shirt too. See how they fit YOU and then, when you go shopping, if you see something you really like, if nothing else you can try it on and see how it hangs in comparison to how her current comfy clothes hang on you. It's like warming up the car for her, but with panties involved!

Ohhhhhhhh what a good idea. I'm thinking that may be fun too. While i'm at it i may even practice that swagger. I'm thinking it is all in the clothes.

But, she don't wear panties silly!!!!!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Ohhhhhhhh what a good idea. I'm thinking that may be fun too.

But, she don't wear panties silly!!!!!

Not panties for HER, goofball. YOUR panties. In HER clothes. Hotness right there.

See, this is how it goes:

Bully, I got something for you today.

Yeah? What is it, beautiful love of my life?

I got you a couple things that should fit marvelously. What do you think?

<--as you wander aimlessly in with her outfit on you

This works especially best if it's more formal attire and there's a tie involved.

Just sayin'.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I'm still learning how to buy clothes for my butch. I went to buy some summer clothes for her back in May. Since she buys her clothes in the men's department, i thought well, that's easy. Heck i raised two boys so i thought i knew how to buy "men's" clothes.

But, because she likes those long shorts and i wasn't quite sure about sizes and styles, what i got originally didn't work.

The shorts i got were too big and too baggy and came down way past her knees, actually just above her ankles, and the shirt was stripped and way too long and came down almost to her knees as well. OMG she looked like a 7 year old school boy. It was funny and cute as hell, but didn't work. She's probably gonna kill me for typing about this.

I totally failed my first try. I did take them back. Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works.

I'm getting better but it is truly a learning experience.

This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not panties for HER, goofball. YOUR panties. In HER clothes. Hotness right there.

See, this is how it goes:

Bully, I got something for you today.

Yeah? What is it, beautiful love of my life?

I got you a couple things that should fit marvelously. What do you think?

<--as you wander aimlessly in with her outfit on you

This works especially best if it's more formal attire and there's a tie involved.

Just sayin'.

No wonder i adore you!!! Works even better with one of her white dress shirts and no bi-panty involvement.

Originally Posted by Kelt

This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

Wonderful!!!!! I look forward to seeing it!!!!

I am getting way better. I know to look for shorter shirts, shorter shorts, even though they are long when she wears them. No stripes. And the best shirts i've found are polo ...those rock!!!! And are hot!!!!

Did i mention they are hot?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

No wonder i adore you!!! Works even better with one of her white dress shirts and no bi-panty involvement.

Now you're cookin'!

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Kelt

This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

Looking forward to it...

[Kelt]

I would say this is shopping for butches, but the truth is it will work for anyone.

The idea mentioned earlier of wearing someone else's clothes and then trying to replicate the feel of them is pretty good, but I think we can get it even closer.

What I have found works well (and quickly) for me is to measure it out ahead of time. Sizes on labels vary widely and the sad truth is that the more expensive the garment the more likely it is to show a 'vanity' size on the label.

I take an item that I know fits me, or whoever you are shopping for, very well and measure the heck out of it in the places that matter. I measure it as I would find it on the hanger or laid out, this is step one to figure out whether or not it is worth trying on. For more fitted items, I highly recommend going through the hassle of trying on because it is less hassle than returning it later if there is something not quite exactly the way you want it. For more casual maybe less form fitting or made of more relaxed fabrics, this may be enough. Try it yourself and find out. If you are shopping for someone else, I would say get the things that are a little less particular or plan for the possibility of a little tweak at the tailor, which may be needed anyway.

Take down these measurements:

Shirts:

Neck. Really critical if it is to be worn with a tie, otherwise up to 1 inch extra, closer is better for overall hang. Take this measurement with it buttoned all the way up. Applies to other necks as well, crew, vee, polo, etc.

Shoulder seam to seam, the more accurate this is the better the whole thing will look with the understanding that you are working with a known good fit item otherwise things like different sizes of chests and hips can change all that.

Across the bottom of the shirt where the hips will hit. This depends on if it will be worn out or tucked in. If out, it needs to be larger, if tucked you can get away with some spread at the bottom because it will be tucked in.

Sleeve, 4 different measurements here. From shoulder seam to end of cuff, this is a really fast elimination tool if you are looking hanging shirts, if there is no shoulder seam, go with the traditional center of neck to end of cuff, still quick.

For short sleeves, measure that too for a couple of reasons. If you are in a mens section usually they are made for someone generally taller most bio females so the sleeves are longer. If it is a sewn end at the sleeve, it can be hemmed shorter. If you are like me and don't really like showing off your upper arms too much you want to make sure they are long enough, you can't lengthen them. When I was heavier than I am now I also wanted to measure the width of the bottom of the sleeve so that it would not bind, especially on polos, if it is an issue look for sleeves that are not banded.

Overall length, from the base of the neck to the very bottom.

Especially important on things like polo shirts, these can be way too long in mens, it might work better to try women's (it's basically the same thing, although the color choices are different) or, for myself with knit tops I have good luck in the boys area, the overall length and sleeve length work well for my type. And a heck of a lot cheaper too!

I know these lists seem onerous from the outside, but you only have to do it once or whenever you have a size change. It really narrows things down quickly to the most likely candidates.

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<edited by Tech Admin at user request>

Okay, onto pants:

Again, quick on the hanger or table stuff here

Inseam, if it says 32 it probably is. OR, your out thrifting or going vintage and it shrank so now it is really 29 (seriously, Levis 501's shrink 3 inches in length). Think about this when buying new too, will it shrink? What is the real inseam you want? On that note, hemming is a really inexpensive alteration ($12-$14) if you just found some really great wool trousers for $10 in a vintage shop that would be $100 new somewhere.

Rise, how far from the crotch to the waistband? You will probably have 3 different choices, dress pants and trousers, jeans, and shorts or other casual wear.

Waist, side to side. This will be affected by rise, the lower the waist, (shorter rise) on bio women that usually translates into a wider waist size.

Hip, side to side. I usually find the lower pocket attachment point and measure there. If it is too snug there the pocket will usually gap some which means that on dress pants it will show the pocket lining. Big no.

Special note on shorts, be sure to measure the inseam on these too, as with shirt sleeves, if in a mens department they are made for usually taller people. If they are fairly plain they can be hemmed, no big deal. If they are cargo shorts or have other embellishments, deal breaker. Here is a tip I discovered by accident. For cargo shorts with a shorter inseam try marine clothes. No kidding, I guess the yachting set likes their shorts about three inches shorter. They are the perfect length for me, try Marine West or OP.

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<edited by Tech Admin at user request>

So, a couple of other things I do to minimize the pain. Have this list of measurements in your wallet or phone and keep an tape measure in the car. I also have my tailors price list with me. I took a picture of it and keep it in my phone.


<edited by Tech Admin at user request>

This way, when I am out if I spot a really good deal on something I need (especially thrifting) I can decide if it is still a great deal after I have paid for whatever tweak it needs to make it just right, sleeve shortening on long sleeves that are split is more than short sleeves, maybe you need a little more room at the bottom of a shirt that is going to be tucked in, add a gusset? If you have the price list handy you can see what the total cost will really be. I have damn near everything tweaked a little here or there, but still save a ton of money this way.

Also, go ahead and keep a list of what you need in your wallet or phone. When you are looking in your closet you may think ‘I could really use a dark blue button down’ but when you are in a shop with someone or just passing by it is easy to forget what is really going to fill in the gaps in the wardrobe vs what looks cool right now. I usually have a list of three or four things on hand and it helps me remember to go ahead and look for that thing, both filling the spots and not wasting money on yet another thing that doesn’t go with anything else.

I don’t really care for shopping and this helps take the sting out by getting me real tangible results when I do go. Now that it is written out, it looks like a lot of trouble to go to, it isn’t, it is actually easier. If you are shopping for someone else you will have a much better chance of getting something that will fit right and be really appreciated by the person you are doing it for.

So, fill in the blanks. Tell me your tips and tricks. I’ve probably forgotten a few things and will come back when I remember.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works

I agree. But, I think that it is less about a person being "butch" and more of a body type. Bio females tend to have various body shapes. Some have curves, while some don't. Men typically don't, but not all butches are shaped like men (minimal hips). I would suggest that when one shops in the men's department for bio females, that their body shape is taken into account, as not just any style will work for every female.

[Gemme]

Kelt, those tips are really good and you've obviously put a lot of thought into it. The set up for the different styles of shirts, etc would be a pain (as you mentioned) but having the list in the car or purse would be handy because you never know when you'll find something for someone but wouldn't know if it would fit.

That being said, I'll stick with my old fashioned eyeball and/or how does it fit me? methods because then that means I get to wear my honey's clothes for a "real" reason aka NOT "I like it and I'm stealing it".