Open Letter: Dear Femme

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

I think this is a good place to express this. It's about femme sisterhood. I had an experience with a femme friend today, that in my mind is worthy of a public conversation. It's about how we do or don't respect each others hearts.

****** is a friend of mine. ****** is interested in my ex. My ex and I have been apart for over a year, but are still close friends. Everyone who knows us, knows this. Well they have been flirting, and playing with "that" energy (please don't make me watch) Today this femme had the maturity, and consideration to have a heart to heart talk with me about her feelings. And went so far as to ask for my blessing before going further, as to not hurt me.

I can't tell you how much I respect her, and appreciate her honesty and care. She was worried about talking to me, and felt guilty, not addressing it. Now she could have gone a lot of different ways with those feelings, but she decided to act like an adult and address it. It hurts to watch people we love(ed) move on. If it is done callously, and disrespectfully the pain only deepens. It wasn't a fun conversation for either of us, but her care helped the pain, she knew she was causing me. So BRAVA too her, for acting like a real woman, and a true sister.THAT I can respect, that's being REAL. In my mind that's how sisters should act. How do you other femmes feel about this?????

Pashi

This is lovely that she considered your feelings and respected you enough to engage you in this manner.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Gemme

"Truth is, Great do need Hate to survive, so I..."

Will Smith


Semi-related, but that line is what popped into my head reading this part of your post. And then immediately afterward, I remembered a video I'd seen of someone talking about how love can translate to hate but I can't find that, so you have the lyric above.

*shrug*

Basically, here's my thoughts (and what was the core of the video I saw):

If you love someone enough to love them...REALLY love them, then you have the power to hate them with the same range and depth and intensity. Our world is all energy. We exchange energy all of the time. Emotions are all energy, regardless of what they portray. So, someone that loved me 'to infinity and beyond' has the power to hate me with the exact same amount of energy, just going in the 'uh oh' direction.

Now, there are those who are able to channel their energy peaks into something more productive than hatred. Unfortunately, I am not one of them. My capacity for hate is very high, as is my capacity for love and everything in between. I've been told I'm a hateful person, and perhaps I am. I know my wit lies on the sharper side of things.

For me, I look at things pretty much the opposite that you do. If someone loves me with richness and intensity and rocks me to my very core with it, I know that that love can go the other way with the same vastness. So, for me, it's not that they (or I) LACK humanity because they're (I'm) capable of hate, it's because they (I) ARE (AM) human that they (I) feel hate. The deeper the emotion, the more human they (I) are (am).

Gemme,

I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you can put this out there so easily. And this is where and when I become the judgmental being. I judge. I cannot imagine for a second loving someone so deeply and then not. So, of course - I question their motives and if they ever truly did love. I believe I also lack the ability to see gray area much of the time. Something I have to work on, when it comes to other people and how they deal with things. I am really black and white when it comes to this.

I can HATE - and hate I have. But never someone who I have loved or who has loved me. But then again, no one has ever really hurt me to the core of my being. Sure, I have been hurt by love lost and cried my little girl tears and have been so distraught - but to hate them, because they have chosen to move on in a different direction as me. Or to hate them, because they have stolen money from me? It's only money and I do not form attachments to material things, even though I am obsessed with them. The only person I ever hated, was a person who hurt my children. My claws came out and I could feel the hate build inside of me, and all I wanted to do was hurt this person.

I guess for me, I have only been in love once. I have loved many - but that deep in love feeling, truly once in my life. And I could not hate her if my life depended on it. Even though, my heart broke - no, I could never hate her and will die loving her. I let her in, how can I push her out? Hopefully one day, I will allow myself to fall. Maybe that's why I have never hated, I do not allow myself to go to that place with partners. Far too vulnerable for me.

In thinking about your words, again -- Perhaps I need to look at myself and figure out why I do not allow myself this emotion of "Hate." Maybe it would do my soul good to feel it. But the few times I have, it has just left me feeling angry and I don't like anger. A rule in my relationships - do not ever yell at me! If you yell at me, I probably will walk. I don't do anger.

Thanks YOU!

[Arwen]

I don't hate any more. I grieve. I despair. I avoid. But I don't hate. That energy ties me into those I don't love any more. It is a deeper, stronger hook than that of love in some ways.

It makes me speak of them, dream of them even when they are no longer in my life by my choice. It makes me continue to feed them some piece of me that they have no right to. Even an angry, ugly emotion like hate feeds them. And I am done giving certain people any of me--even the ugly bits.

And believe you me, I've hated. I've hated long and hard and strong. Where did it get me?

Nowhere other than stressed out to the point of diarrhea and hair loss. Oh yes. I've hated hard.

I know it's fashionable these days to call yourself a hater. I choose not to do that. I choose not to buy into that negative energy any more. I don't like the end results. I prefer to seek joy. Sometimes that means avoiding some people, but hey! There's enough world out there for all of us, right?

Do I still love my exes? Some of them, yes. Very much so. Others? Nope, not at all. I've withdrawn their access to cash their emotional checks at my bank of self. Account closed.

It's hard to take this road. Others mock. Others think I'm a Pollyanna. And that's okay because that's their choice. It's not in my hula hoop to control what they say or think about me.

As to someone dating my ex? I'm pretty sure I didn't leave a leash on anyone I dated. I don't own my exes. I don't have the right to tell them who to date just as they don't have the right to tell me who to date.

Would it be painful to see my ex with a friend? Probably, but not in the way some might think. I have exes that I wouldn't want my friends to date because I know how much hurt could be brought into their lives. I don't want that for my friends. I love my friends but still would not "warn" them off. They are grown-assed women who can make that decision for themselves.

But to have a throwdown temper tantrum because someone I know is now dating someone I used to date? Nah...I'll leave those histrionics to others.

I do appreciate that Gemme talked to me about her attraction to OrganicButch only because I got to confess that I'd been telling him to check her out. Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match!

That's my long two cents. Might even be a nickel.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

Gemme,

I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you can put this out there so easily. And this is where and when I become the judgmental being. I judge. I cannot imagine for a second loving someone so deeply and then not. So, of course - I question their motives and if they ever truly did love. I believe I also lack the ability to see gray area much of the time. Something I have to work on, when it comes to other people and how they deal with things. I am really black and white when it comes to this.

I can HATE - and hate I have. But never someone who I have loved or who has loved me. But then again, no one has ever really hurt me to the core of my being. Sure, I have been hurt by love lost and cried my little girl tears and have been so distraught - but to hate them, because they have chosen to move on in a different direction as me. Or to hate them, because they have stolen money from me? It's only money and I do not form attachments to material things, even though I am obsessed with them. The only person I ever hated, was a person who hurt my children. My claws came out and I could feel the hate build inside of me, and all I wanted to do was hurt this person.

I guess for me, I have only been in love once. I have loved many - but that deep in love feeling, truly once in my life. And I could not hate her if my life depended on it. Even though, my heart broke - no, I could never hate her and will die loving her. I let her in, how can I push her out? Hopefully one day, I will allow myself to fall. Maybe that's why I have never hated, I do not allow myself to go to that place with partners. Far too vulnerable for me.

In thinking about your words, again -- Perhaps I need to look at myself and figure out why I do not allow myself this emotion of "Hate." Maybe it would do my soul good to feel it. But the few times I have, it has just left me feeling angry and I don't like anger. A rule in my relationships - do not ever yell at me! If you yell at me, I probably will walk. I don't do anger.

Thanks YOU!

I think this world needs all types and expressions of love. That's why we're different. *grin*

I don't see any of us being 'better' than the other or having a 'better' way of processing stuff. Just different. I like the idea of feeling as you do for those who've passed through your life and love.

Our past experiences teach us a lot and help mold us. Some things make others turn away from what occurred and some things creates a draw to the same type of action or behavior.

You don't do anger. The majority of my life has been nothing but anger. Anger and loss and frustration and regret. A being can't exist in this world, in that atmosphere, without it coloring them. I'd like to say that I'm all bright yellow for sunshine and glitter, but it's just not so. I'm more indigo or gray.

You also mentioned not having been hurt to your core. That's another difference between us. I've experienced betrayal on levels I would only wish on my most hated (wry grin) enemies. Sometimes I invited those into my life who did this and sometimes I didn't.

I see you as a very open person, who does her best to see the gold in everyone. I am a bit different. In relation to people that are acquaintances or are only on the peripherals of my life, I don't judge or criticize them very harshly. It's those that are deeply twisted in the fibers of my life that I have the most difficult time with. It's something I have worked and worked on but I think, on some cellular level deep within my being, there is an expectation of hurt. Everything is exaggerated. My Judgey McJudgerson self comes out. I expect more from them. I give more to them. Everything....love, lust, hate, laughter, happiness, sadness....is magnified a thousandfold.

You've said that once they are in, since you let them in, you can't or won't push them out. Once I let someone in, the stakes increase dramatically. That's why I hold so many people at arm's length. In the best of cases, the hurt is outweighed by the joy. In most cases, it's just not so. It's probably going to be a lifelong battle I wage within myself, to see the brighter side of things and to try to let go of the rest.

[Passionaria]

Originally Posted by Gemme

If you love someone enough to love them...REALLY love them, then you have the power to hate them with the same range and depth and intensity.

(((Gemme))) I know this is true, I have been there as well. It's like the intensity has to go somewhere, like a rubber band being pulled tight then released. SNAP. For me it's all about "how" things are handled. My reality becomes much more flexible if I am treated with some tenderness and care. I have only hated one person that I loved. And it was because they were so incredibly unkind, in how they ended things. Unnecessarily unkind and hurtful. Pain turned my love to hate, I just couldn't understand it. It was a serious reality warp, and unexpected. Now I understand it, and still have a soft spot for them. But if I saw them, I would treat them like a ghost, to protect my heart. Twice, shame on me....

Pashi

[Passionaria]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

Gemme,


Sure, I have been hurt by love lost and cried my little girl tears and have been so distraught - but to hate them, because they have chosen to move on in a different direction as me......

I am beginning to believe deep love + deep pain, can = hate. And I guess what constitutes "deep pain" is subjective. For me yelling is annoying but not a deal breaker, lol I can be very passionate with words myself. For me it is being disrespected, or worse yet humiliated, that works my last nerve! But then again I'm a bit of a Princess. OK a full blooded Princess.

And, Ms Julie I really appreciate how you can share differing opinions with such grace!!!!

Pashi

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

(((Gemme))) I know this is true, I have been there as well. It's like the intensity has to go somewhere, like a rubber band being pulled tight then released. SNAP. For me it's all about "how" things are handled. My reality becomes much more flexible if I am treated with some tenderness and care. I have only hated one person that I loved. And it was because they were so incredibly unkind, in how they ended things. Unnecessarily unkind and hurtful. Pain turned my love to hate, I just couldn't understand it. It was a serious reality warp, and unexpected. Now I understand it, and still have a soft spot for them. But if I saw them, I would treat them like a ghost, to protect my heart. Twice, shame on me....

Pashi

Yes! Like a pendulum.

One of the things that determines if negative emotions will spring forth is what happens during the course of the relationship. But, like in your case, how you deal with one another afterwards can also swing the emotional pendulum too.

Even when things are tough and complicated, if both parties exhibit care and respect towards the other, I think all things are possible.

[Passionaria]

Originally Posted by Arwen

It makes me speak of them, dream of them even when they are no longer in my life by my choice. It makes me continue to feed them some piece of me that they have no right to. Even an angry, ugly emotion like hate feeds them. And I am done giving certain people any of me--even the ugly bits.


As to someone dating my ex? I'm pretty sure I didn't leave a leash on anyone I dated. I don't own my exes. I don't have the right to tell them who to date just as they don't have the right to tell me who to date.

Ms. Arwen,
You are such an articulate SCORPIO. It happens to be something I appreciate about you, though. I think there is a big difference between "love" and dating. Love is about relationship, depth of relationship. Dating is a social activity. There are some people I have dated that said they love me, but it is BS, lip service (and not the yummy kind). My point is about a love relationship, and how lovely it is, for Femmes to be treat each others hearts with care and respect, rather than having the I'm getting mine attitude, that is rampant. Respect for sisterhood, not leashes. Another Pollyanna here.

I would, and have warned femmes about hurtful Butches. Are they grown, and smart? Yes. When I learn someone is just a cold disrespectful person, or worse, I can pretty much bet it will be repeated. A rose, is a rose. In reality, after they do it to enough femmes, everyone will know. Watching, I still hurt, for them........

I love what you said " It makes me continue to feed them some piece of me that they have no right to." GOOD POINT!!!

Pashianna

[Bit]

I have hated abusive exes of my partners, and abusive parents; I have hated abusers of others I care about. But for me, even the abusive partners I've had, even my own abusive family members? No. Once I love, I cannot hate. Once I love, I cannot stop loving.

Deep shattering pain that keeps me broken for months is the result of that inability to stop loving. The pain comes because I can't stop loving even when I want to; because I gave my all and was treated badly; because I still belong heart and soul to someone who has rejected me.... for whatever reason it comes, it rules my life until I recover, and during that time, I cannot deal with the person who caused it.

Full recovery can take years if I judge it by the time it takes until I can speak to an ex again, although it might only be a matter of months before I'm recovered enough to love someone else. One of the things I most treasure about Gryph is that far from being threatened by the love I still hold for my exes, he understands and makes safe space for my whole heart, including all the broken parts of it (with the ones they still love). He understands that none of them can mean as much to me as he does. He also understands that I cannot handle being around them or speaking to them, and he does his best to protect me.

Some people might think that I hold a grudge, but it isn't that I hate them or wish them any kind of harm (which, yanno, is kinda required for it to be a grudge); it's that I'm raw inside, like deep burn scars that take years to heal, and any contact abrades the scars again and again.

When Femme friends have come to me and asked about my exes, I have done my best to be honest. If the ex was abusive in any way, I have said so. If not, I have done my best to be objective and kind. In any case, I've made it plain that I am biased by the heartbreak.

Luckily, no one who is a close friend has gotten into a romance with any of my exes where I would have been forced to face it on a daily basis. It would be just awful having to walk away from a close friend, but yanno... those continually abraded scars would demand it.

It's interesting that this pattern took hold in my life after I discovered Daddy/girl relationships, and allowed myself to be open and free as a girl instead of stifling that part of myself. It freed me to love more and more deeply with each relationship.......... and that means I hurt more and more deeply with the breaking of each relationship. Vulnerability, this ability to bond so tightly, to give everything I am, carries a huge price in my life. I suppose that people probably find the same ability in most kink-type relationships? I don't know; I only know that it developed in my life along with my girl-self, and that finding a partner who understands and accepts it has been crucial for me.

The path to finding that partner, well, the stops along it were the partners who either didn't understand or refused to accept.... can't hate them, but I still have to protect myself and those badly abraded scars, even if it would mean walking away from a Femme friend who entered a relationship with one of my exes.

[Bit]

p.s., my post is about this pattern in my life, not specifically about where I am right now. If someone wants to date one of my exes now, go ahead, lol...

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Words

Clothes swap.

Oakland.

Realization.

Dressed up, we are beautiful.

But in bra and panties, thrown in a room together? AND...not a butch in sight?

We're fucking awesome.

Dear Femme's,

I can't wait to experience this feeling of bonding with ya'll

Excited and Nervous,

Snow