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Old 09-18-2010, 06:24 PM   #1
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Default About Butches Q & A

The thread is for posing and answering questions about Butch (female or male identified) identity which is non-transgendered relating to our b-F dynamic and historical shared narrative which the site embraces. However, no one is excluded from asking or answering questions here. The reason why the title/intent is non-trans simply has to do with a specific thread for this population not being on the site presently. There is a "Ask a Transperson" thread in the Trans Zone. I think there is an "Ask a Femme" thread as well (?).

When I was new to the B-F dynamic, just being able to ask questions (no matter the content) about both butch and femme was really helpful to me- and this is the spirit of this thread - to be in a safe and non-threatening, non-judgemental environment to ask and answer questions, discuss ideas and share with members. There really are not any dumb questions!



So... ask butches some stuff!
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:34 PM   #2
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WHERE ARE ALL THE SEXI FLORIDA BUTCHES HIDING!!!!!!??????
Thats my question....I DO NOT do the bar scene.......I am at a loss......and a tad FrUStraTED!!!

Thanks for letting me vent.....WHEWW

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Old 09-18-2010, 06:41 PM   #3
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I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:02 PM   #4
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I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
I knew i was a lesbian for a long time but i never realized i was butch until i was like 17 LoL It really don't think butch/femme dynamics are a choice. i didn't do anything to be butch i dressed and acted that way because that is who i am and how i felt comfortable.
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:15 PM   #5
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Ahhh Butch-ness...there is nothing like it for me...It was not a decision or something I thought about until a year ago (roughly). I kno who I am and what I like. Not coming out till I was 20yrs old but didnt even change one thing about the way I dressed(someone should have told me it was "ok" much sooner)...
It is a part of me from who I am attracted to...to how I dress and hair-style... to my lack of decorating sense, but can build u just about anything. It is the innate skills and desires we have.
I don't have to have an identifier/label to know this is who I am...but it does fit me quite well
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:18 PM   #6
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caustic i was wondering where all the femmes into butches were. i didn't think they existed anymore LoL
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:19 PM   #7
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Looking back over the years I figure out a long time ago when I was about four I wasnt like my girl cousins and never would be.When my mom amd aunts would get all of us together to go buy school clothes or something nice for the hollidays I was usely off in the boys clothes department cause thats what I was suposed to wear...not girlie things.I didnt have much of a choice so I had to go along with it cause mom said so..big time.Funny thing is mom never had a prob buying me boys clothes for the most part,just as long as I wore the dam girl stuff when I had to.Many time is in school I got the evil eye from mother superior about my rough and tumble ways,u bet I got the u r a girl talk even tho in my mind and heart I knew I was somewhere in between she/he.I learned a lot from bothe sided of my growing up,one side made me strong,able to hande many things others couldnt.The other gave me enough girl smarts to stay out of trouble because by time I was old enough to figure out I was a queer baby butch that I needed to keep myself safe cause if I didnt who else would.I took a lot of greif about it but made it through the worst ok.Things are still a work in progress and will always be so.
More later.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:35 PM   #8
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SweetButch.....I am here....others...cant say...but good gawd amighty I cant find MY Butch!!!

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Old 09-18-2010, 09:17 PM   #9
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yea i can't find my femme feel free to pick up an application and message it to me
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sweetbutch26 View Post
I knew i was a lesbian for a long time but i never realized i was butch until i was like 17 LoL It really don't think butch/femme dynamics are a choice. i didn't do anything to be butch i dressed and acted that way because that is who i am and how i felt comfortable.
LOL.. you were way ahead of me! got the lesbian thing in my late 20's, but not the butch factor until my late 40's!! Well, it was always there, I just had no real models or lived in a time and place until then to just hit my comfort zone.

Something that I really like seeing these days are young butches being who they are so much younger than it was for me. Feels good!!
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:17 PM   #11
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goes to show that our community has come a long way. we are still fighting for our rights but winning the war one small battle at a time. homophobia will soon be a thing of the past.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:22 AM   #12
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Eons ago, when I was first testing the waters of gay life, I was attracted to that butch energy.I kept finding myself attracted to women who had that "masculine" edge. Then I discovered that a few of the women i liked, felt oppressed by people who found them to be masculine. I didn't understand why they wore men's clothes and sported men's haircuts if they didn't want people to think they were masculine. But I liked/loved them, so I didn't want to say or do anything that added to their feelings of oppression.(But in my secret heart I was still attracted to that energy!)

As time went by I began to meet folks who LIKED being butch and that was a time for me of feeling really comfortable in my world. I had a pretty butch spouse and lots pretty butch (and femme) friends. I felt "normal" not "in the closet" as I had felt with my more andro lesbian friends.

Then my darling decided to transition, and one by one most of those pretty butch friends decided to transition as well. "WTF!" I thought to myself, "Is there really is no such thing as a butch? - are they all just guys waiting for the right time to become who they were born to be?" Or maybe they won't actually transition because the available surgery isn't that great?" A very confusing time for me.

Then one day, a few years before hubby died, I was having a very lonely night. A night where I was feeling really strongly that while I had kept my darling by staying with him (and very much wanting to stay with him) during and after his transition, that I had lost myself. Was I still a femme? Was I still gay? Anyway, I was sitting by my computer, and I typed the word "femme" into the search bar and found b-f. What a rush! There were still people out there like me. There was a place where we were welcome. And wonder of wonder - there really were butches still alive out there. I felt so happy! But then I felt guilty because I felt drawn back to a place where hubby (I thought ) could no longer go. I didn't stick around long enough to find out that trans folk were welcome too. I didn't find that out till several years later when I returned after hubby died.

Well, I just can't seem to do a short post, but thanks for starting this thread. I don't have any questions right now, but I have a lot of love for people of butch persuasion, LOL, and I want to hear what y'all have to say.

Smooches,
Keri
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLastHome View Post
I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
Good question. I've been thinking a lot about this and related subjects lately, actually, which was sparked by the posts of others on their own identities as well as my own in the male id'd butches vs. FTM thread. Probably more specifically on what drew me and continues to draw me toward the use of butch as far as my identity. We obviously all have different meanings and understandings as far as how we understand ourselves, despite that we may use terms to identify ourselves that are similar to those who have different interpretations of them as far as their own identity.

So the question of what drew me to the B-F dynamic is kind of complicated, I think. First, because I've come to think that butch is nothing beyond what each individual butch understands it to be, and as such I could only be drawn to the dynamic through my own interpretation, I could never be drawn to it as a result of a fixed/universal definition of butch. At the same time, I think that I did have a certain definition of butch in my head when I first encountered the B-F dynamic, but what I chose to see and adopt was more a reflection of what was going on in my head than what the dynamic means to other people (though some do share my thoughts, it's probably nowhere close to being what the majority think).

That said, I think what drew me to the B-F dynamic is exactly that. That I could look at this dynamic and see something of myself in it when I had never experienced that before. I was never able to identify as a lesbian for a number of reasons, primarily because I didn't consider myself female, but as a male born in the wrong body, so to speak. Because of that I felt pretty lost as to what I was and where I might find some sense of myself. Coming into contact with the B-F dynamic was a big relief for me because it gave me the resources to further explore where I was as far as sexual orientation and gender. It also introduced me to femmes, which was the other primary aspect that drew me to the dynamic beyond figuring myself out. I think that when I first came into contact with the B-F dynamic I did have a set idea of what femme was, what butch was and what the dynamic was, and I do think it was a certain interpretation of what femme/butch was that initially drew me in.

Obviously all those definitions are purely my own since there are as many definitions of butch/femme/the dynamic as there are individuals within it, but I think what I initially interpreted as "femme" was merely what I, as an individual, happened to be attracted to in a femme rather than the definition of femme. I think it was almost like a magnetic reaction in a sense. I was drawn to what most seemed to fit me and what I was attracted to in women and assumed that because I was attracted to that part of the dynamic, that that aspect defined the dynamic.

Yet, obviously most butches don't define butch the way I define butch, but I think that can be said for every butch, whether they share labels (soft, stone, male, woman, female, TG etc.) or not. Hell, there are a million and one definitions of stone butch alone, nevermind every other butch id. Even within the same identities absolutely nothing is black and white. We're all different yet we all still see something within the dynamic that attracts us, and in some cases its entirely different things that attract us.

I think that's really the beauty of the dynamic. The dynamic can be whatever those attracted to it want it to be, because there is a niche, so to speak, within it for everyone that is attracted to it. There was one point in my life where I thought that what was "historically" butch/femme fit me, but then I came to see that other people saw what was "historically" b/f differently.

In short, what initially drew me to the B-F dynamic and to the adoption of butch as a part of my identity was the part of the dynamic that reflected my personality, my gender, my sexual attractions. What continues to draw me to the B-F dynamic (beyond, of course, certain commonalities in gender identification and sexual orientation) is nearly the exact opposite in that my interest is peeked by the fact that it continues to open unfathomable numbers of doors as far as human diversity in gender identity and sexual orientation. I think in that respect its impossible to be boxed into butch/femme (or any identity) since even the most "old school" add their own unique twist as to what they consider butch/femme in themselves.

[/ramble]

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Old 09-19-2010, 03:52 PM   #14
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I have no idea where the femmes are in my town,I know there are some but they are with someone,once I walked up to a butch some years younger than me and respectufully intoduced myself so dureing the convo I ask where are all the ladies anywhere close to my age..he laughed and said they either passed,gave up or left town.I know u all are out there some where..but where???
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:20 PM   #15
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I've tried some labels. What I like about butch is it sorta covers all of me. I feel like I am basically a skeleton underneath all of this and filled with spirit. I guess that is what is important for my identity.

I was born butch. As long as I remember I have just loved girls...girl girls. I have wanted to be married since I was five years old. Still not that yet.

So being butch was a feeling I can never remember being without. That's how I came out of the womb.

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Old 09-22-2010, 06:47 PM   #16
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I came to the identify as butch fairly recently. It's been more of an answer for my identity. I've never personally met someone else who identified as butch or femme so I'm hoping to get a sense of community from here. Prior to the last few months I had identified as trans. I didn't really learn about butch women at all until the beginning of this summer through internet resources. I'm kinda of drawn to thinking of butch as a gender in and of itself.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:50 PM   #17
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I have found my share of local butches but none of them are what I am seeking. The older I get and the more responsible and mature I am about the decision I make regarding dating and partnerships, the narrower my field of dating potentials become. I turn to the internet for good conversation and companionship but again, the older I get the more I am resolved not to leave home again..my family is here and I own my own home. I have had enough non successful long distance relationships to know I am unwilling to make that leap of faith again for a butch or FtM. Someone would have to come to me or by god, prove to me that for once, I dont have more to lose than they do. That was the problem in the past. The ones I moved to, could have their old lives back when we didnt work out. I had to recreate mine all over again. And last time, I almost wasnt able to. I had lost so much over a course of a decade that I couldnt lose not one more thing and not end up homeless. Its simply not going to happen again. I am capable of a relationship, just not willing to be so disposible to anyone ever again...forever hasnt meant to others what it meant to me...

So...I am contently single in Ohio. I have my share of admirers online and locally but too damn scared or too narrow in my expectations for one human being to fit the bill. He would have to be someone pretty damned magically real to catch me.

We femmes are out here...
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:46 PM   #18
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I have found my share of local butches but none of them are what I am seeking. The older I get and the more responsible and mature I am about the decision I make regarding dating and partnerships, the narrower my field of dating potentials become. I turn to the internet for good conversation and companionship but again, the older I get the more I am resolved not to leave home again..my family is here and I own my own home. I have had enough non successful long distance relationships to know I am unwilling to make that leap of faith again for a butch or FtM. Someone would have to come to me or by god, prove to me that for once, I dont have more to lose than they do. That was the problem in the past. The ones I moved to, could have their old lives back when we didnt work out. I had to recreate mine all over again. And last time, I almost wasnt able to. I had lost so much over a course of a decade that I couldnt lose not one more thing and not end up homeless. Its simply not going to happen again. I am capable of a relationship, just not willing to be so disposible to anyone ever again...forever hasnt meant to others what it meant to me...

So...I am contently single in Ohio. I have my share of admirers online and locally but too damn scared or too narrow in my expectations for one human being to fit the bill. He would have to be someone pretty damned magically real to catch me.

We femmes are out here...

You say so many things here that fit for many mature butches, like me. My home is important to me and although my family isn't that close in location, it isn't all that far, either. I am not willing to just uproot and move and not willing to do a long distance relationship, either. I wouldn't ask someone to do what I choose not too or cannot do. I have pets, too and I love my yard and gardens. I'm not going to take long trips elsewhere and leave my home and to expect the other person to most of the travel isn't fair.

Now, I do live where there is a large queer population, but, my age and list of "non-negotiables" have very much influenced my not partnering with someone again. The possibilities have been out (many femmes are near) there and I appreciate this fact, but, I have not dated anyone that is a good fit for me. Also, the B-F community here has a pretty high rate of poly and leather femmes. Neither of those are what I seek. Both work well for many people and I applaud them. I certainly have some good friendships with people that practice both and that is a good thing.

I have met femmes from the Planet (and dash site) at events and of course, I have met some I was attracted to and just really thought were great and wondered if I would hit it off with them if given the opportunity. However, femmes in my age group (and I am not interested in being with someone a lot younger or older than myself) also have careers, family and friends where they live and like you, are not going to just jump into anything.

Due to arthritis, I have been considering moving to a dryer climate and even doing some extended road travel to check out areas, But, this is strictly about my finding out if I like another geographic area that might be easier on my joints. It is not to pursue a relationship.

I have been fortunate in my lifetime to have known what a positive long term relationship is like and have to be honest, i wouldn't settle for anything less. I'd rather remain single. if someone comes into my life again and both of our sets of needs and wants match and we live close enough to not cause undue difficulty, then i would probably welcome her into my life.

I do enjoy some dating, but, I also have close friends that like to do the things that i enjoy and friends are important to me. sure, I miss the kind of intimacy one shares with a partner and of course I can feel lonely at times. Yet, i have a full life and one I am grateful for. Plus, I totally love retirement. Although, the recession has had an effect on this and has put limits on me. But, all will work out eventually.

So much of this is about natural life passages….. And cycles…[/COLOR]
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:18 PM   #19
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I've tried some labels. What I like about butch is it sorta covers all of me. I feel like I am basically a skeleton underneath all of this and filled with spirit. I guess that is what is important for my identity.

I was born butch. As long as I remember I have just loved girls...girl girls. I have wanted to be married since I was five years old. Still not that yet.

So being butch was a feeling I can never remember being without. That's how I came out of the womb.
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What you say about butch is how you came out of the womb is interesting to me. I think many of us may have part or all of this belief. When I consider this, it makes my identification stronger and my belief in it as just fine as it is much stronger. That is what will come up for me when asked about ever wanting to transition. No, I'm fine just as I am is at the root of what I feel. And I want a space in our society in which this is so. No questions about being more male than female, or assumptions made about any of my butch attributes. Not my personal alignment with indeed being female (other butches feel differently), not any question about butch being what is true and comfortable for many.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:25 PM   #20
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I too have, ALH, I have experienced a wonderful loving long term relationship and will not settle for less. I want to be precious to someone, not just a trial and error. Living with someone used to be a sign of committment. Moving in with someone you have an LDR with, seems to be just the next step and not necessarily a committment. Committment seems to be the next step. I dont want it to be the next step. I want it to be committment. Maybe if I find someone who sees it as such, my choice to remain single might change.

I personally would just like to date. Go to movies. Have dinner. Stay in and watch a favorite tv show together. Go to museums. Attend an outdoor symphony. Go to a pumpkin festival. Those are the things i would like to do with someone. You cant with an LDR. And the cost of air faire makes this most prohibitive on any budget. I think I would fall over if a butch/transman would say they were flying up to take me to a punkin festival. I swear to god I would swoon like a teenager...but in our age bracket, like you said, probably just not going to happen...
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