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Old 09-23-2010, 12:46 AM   #21
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I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
Interesting thread.

Like others have said, identity is an individual thing. I would add to it...shaped by the times in which you lived and the experiences you incurred along the way.

I was raised the only daughter in a very patriarchal Italian family. I always envied the preferences and privileges given to males. I also was a tomboy who preferred sports and tree climbing to playing with dolls and makeup. I had a hard time understanding why there were differences based on sex organs and never felt like I fit in either mode. (these were the days when the newspaper ads had separate help wanted sections for men and women.)

And I loved women, particularly older women. I loved the energy of being around them. And I was always aware of how that changed when males entered the picture. Funny the things you see as a child. And, the attempts to turn me into the prevailing concept of a "lady" were daunting. My mother still doesnt appreciate the irony of insisting I go to an all female school so I could learn to be a lady (or a lesbian). Sometimes you give a little to get something in return

The womens movement and gay rights movement both influenced my identity. I was always happy to be a female. My idea of a female and what a female could achieve and do in the world was different, but I never questioned my gender. I was more comfortable in pants and oxfords which were more conducive to my tomboy pursuits than girlie clothing would be. The womens movement just accentuated how I always felt as a woman i.e. capable, achievement oriented ( I insisted I would be the first woman to attend Providence College. Didnt happen but it was a dream of mine), physically active, just living, being all that I thought I could be without my gender limiting me.

The gay rights movement influenced me as well. I was not very keen on the traditional b-f thing back then because it seemed very focused on traditional male/female roles, perceptions, and relationships - the very thing I was trying not to be. I always felt women could do better than that and spent a lot of time exploring the various options that were developing.

I came back to the b-f mold when it seemed to shed its hetero influences and incorporate more woman defined/oriented aspects. That felt more like the person I was/am. I may be more attuned to my masculine side but not at the expense of my feminine side - there can be a lopsided balance

I still wear comfortable clothing but would never think of buying mens clothes except for their sneakers which are made better. I am the least handyish butch you will ever meet but I am a great go-fer and direction reader. But, I do know how to treat a lady like the lady she is

The b-f community today, to me, is different again with a more visible trans influence. I respect the journeys of our brothers but as a lesbian and a feminist I find this confusing. Sometimes I feel like Rip Van Winkle, awakening to a new reality, I still havent quite grasped yet.

And age does play a huge role here as others have indicated. As I get older and more settled, I focus my energies closer to home.

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Old 09-23-2010, 02:00 AM   #22
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:31 AM   #23
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I am oh, so all over the map with what attracts me to a femme! i don't have a "type," really unless it rests on her self-emamination. Mainly it's about the way she carries herself and intelligence. I know I key into sensuality much more than sexiness. Just how I'm wired. LOL, I also am just not one to talk all that much about what I consider private between me and someone I am seeing or involved with.

I may think a femme is attractive at first, then after talking to her for a bit, no longer be. I'm sure this is the same for many femmes as well.

I'm not exactly sure why, but, I don't use terms like "hot." That is something to me that goes far beyond the outside of a femme. I also get tired of people being described in terms of looks anyway. How many times have you tried to think of what to say when another butch goes on and on about a femme they think is attractive and you just don't? Doesn't mean I don't think she is smart or a warm person, or interesting- I just don't see what the other butch does or in the same way. Eye of the beholder.....

Of course, chemistry and heat are ingredients I seek, but, they have to blend with all of the other things that draw me to someone.

Hummm... now 25 or 30 years ago, my answer may have been different! I remember being driven by my hormones. Just not the same anymore. But, way better in various ways. There go those life-cycles again! I think I am OK for 59. Nothing special, nothing horrible. I know I am a good human being, but have faults like everyone else. I still can see that some femmes are attracted to me, others are not. I appreciate the ones that are very much!
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:17 AM   #24
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Thus why I said look & attitude...lol
I am begining to think that I like a look that has come and gone...or I simply live in the wrong part of the country to find it...
I am a sucker for the 50's housewife look...skirt or dress always, even the apron, mmmm yes very nice...but it seems I will not find any woman anymore who actually wears skirts/dresses more often than not...
And a trait you cannot change...when her emotions show in her eyes, no matter how hard she tries to hide it with the rest of her actions...
As far as attitude goes...a lady who says hon or dear to almost everyone she knows...one who can be shy, playful, or an out-right vixen when need be...

Oh be still my heart...find me one like that .....someday
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:23 AM   #25
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?



Every woman has an essence that is uniquely her own. It is this essence of who she is that will hold my attention. Describing it is difficult. The girl next door look is a plus. A quiet confidence, inquisitive mind, a ready smile, sensual body language, good sense of humor, a heart felt laugh, a sexy voice, a good companion, peaceful demeanor all add to the allure. But words are seldom adequate to describe something that is as instinctual as attraction.

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Old 09-24-2010, 03:21 AM   #26
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?
Big Bad Bold Beautiful lil babygirls.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:23 PM   #27
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I love to listen to your attraction to femmes

I love to hear that who we are do not go unappreciated

I love to know the yearning for women like us is out there

thank you, dear butches, thank you...
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:42 PM   #28
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?
OHHH ahemmmm yes,the look/attitude can change over time but the essence of who she is and she knows it shows.The walk of, im woman hear me roar ...but then I can be such a kitten too...yeah to hot to handle works for me...most of the time.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:58 PM   #29
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?

i think i fall with the status quo for this group... (and... i can tell ya... that damned sure doesnt happen often...)
the essence of woman to me is what does it...
for a femme to know she is a femme... for her to celebrate her femininity... whatever that means to her... however it manifests...
and i am hooked... throw in a little bit of extroversion and a little bit of a wonderful subby nature...

my my my...
yes...
that is what i want...
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:36 PM   #30
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?
A feminist femme, a strong woman and a kind one. I look (hard) at legs, ass, hands, eyes - probably in that order. Straight, dark hair that falls like a raven's wing into a bob does it for me in a major way. Compassionate and humorous eyes and a smile like a sunrise.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:07 PM   #31
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Question for you all, does a 'strong' woman, femme in type turn you off?
I'm asking because of something I'm trying to figure out from the past, yeah, I should let it go, but? I'd really like to know if that is a negative to butch women. I'd not change one iota, (am a softy really) but I am what I am, so? just asking
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:20 PM   #32
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Question for you all, does a 'strong' woman, femme in type turn you off?
I'm asking because of something I'm trying to figure out from the past, yeah, I should let it go, but? I'd really like to know if that is a negative to butch women. I'd not change one iota, (am a softy really) but I am what I am, so? just asking
Personally, no. I prefer independent, strong femmes. Where this can get sketchy for me has do do more with things like loudness. But, I am just not one for loud, anyway. Femme or butch.... all other people. It is just a personality style thing for me as a person, myself. i can get really tired of feeling my own voice notch up when trying to have a conversation with someone like this (again, anyone from any identity).

I enjoy gregarious women very much- but that isn't really what I'm talking about- abrasiveness is probably the best description. Again, I don't care for abrasive people- isn't really a femme thing.

I love my older sister to pieces, but, sometimes I need a break from her when we are together- she is rather loud and just has a personality that can take over- cause others to feel that what they have to say isn't important. But, she can hear this criticism. And has given me some pointers as well about how I might come off to other people. My softer persona along with being somewhat reserved might come off as stuck-up. I have to watch this.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:23 PM   #33
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Question for you all, does a 'strong' woman, femme in type turn you off?
I'm asking because of something I'm trying to figure out from the past, yeah, I should let it go, but? I'd really like to know if that is a negative to butch women. I'd not change one iota, (am a softy really) but I am what I am, so? just asking
The love of my life, was/is very strong, she can handle herself anywhere, and was in many ways stronger than I, it was a total turn on. I still got to care for her, but knowing she can and will make it in the world was an awesome thing. I am proud of who she is, and the decisions she is making for herself. She also had all the sweetness of a girl and could literally make a room light up. She is still a real blessing in my life, and one I will always cherish.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:28 PM   #34
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Personally, no. I prefer independent, strong femmes. Where this can get sketchy for me has do do more with things like loudness. But, I am just not one for loud, anyway. Femme or butch.... all other people. It is just a personality style thing for me as a person, myself. i can get really tired of feeling my own voice notch up when trying to have a conversation with someone like this (again, anyone from any identity).

I enjoy gregarious women very much- but that isn't really what I'm talking about- abrasiveness is probably the best description. Again, I don't care for abrasive people- isn't really a femme thing.

I love my older sister to pieces, but, sometimes I need a break from her when we are together- she is rather loud and just has a personality that can take over- cause others to feel that what they have to say isn't important. But, she can hear this criticism. And has given me some pointers as well about how I might come off to other people. My softer persona along with being somewhat reserved might come off as stuck-up. I have to watch this.
Thank you for that!
I think I hear you, brash is a word I think I'd use in describing abrasiveness too. Although I can be loud if necessary, (my playground voice, lol) it's more the vibe I give off I suppose. I'm 5'8' (was recently told that was tall, ) and as my momma always said, I walk like a linebacker I can't help that, (charm school didn't work).....my point is, that doesn't adequately describe my entire persona, you'd have to actually talk to me to know I'm not that person.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:55 PM   #35
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Thank you for that!
I think I hear you, brash is a word I think I'd use in describing abrasiveness too. Although I can be loud if necessary, (my playground voice, lol) it's more the vibe I give off I suppose. I'm 5'8' (was recently told that was tall, ) and as my momma always said, I walk like a linebacker I can't help that, (charm school didn't work).....my point is, that doesn't adequately describe my entire persona, you'd have to actually talk to me to know I'm not that person.
YES! And tall is good! So is short!

Be who you are. As a butch type that usually falls short of many of the butch standards I see sometimes, I know about internal questions and sometime insecurity. But, what I have learned is that both butches and femmes have many different styles and traits. I don't need to fit into any box and I sure don't think that anyone else has to. besides, standards are fluid.
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:49 PM   #36
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Question for you all, does a 'strong' woman, femme in type turn you off?
I'm asking because of something I'm trying to figure out from the past, yeah, I should let it go, but? I'd really like to know if that is a negative to butch women. I'd not change one iota, (am a softy really) but I am what I am, so? just asking
She's gotta be strong! Absolutely. Mind you, it's all subjective isn't it? I wouldn't want a lover who couldn't show "weakness," humility, vulnerability ... I'm a tough woman who can show those things too after all.

(Strident's another good bad word lol).

All women should be strong. All of us.

But you know, that analysis/assumption some people make, of butch being strong and femme weak, well it's a laugh, innit? Most femmes can kick my ass one way or another!
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:48 PM   #37
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Question for you all, does a 'strong' woman, femme in type turn you off?
I'm asking because of something I'm trying to figure out from the past, yeah, I should let it go, but? I'd really like to know if that is a negative to butch women. I'd not change one iota, (am a softy really) but I am what I am, so? just asking
Strong women are sexy. I date submissive women but they are by no means weak women. They are strong, independent, courageous women.

HOWEVER that said, define strong---mean and cruel under the guise of strong, not attractive.

Rope--
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:14 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by AtLastHome View Post
I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
excuse me for being late in this thread, but i like the question ...

i think i was butch way before the butch-femme dynamic even occurred to me. tomboy kid .. i was always mistaken for a boy. i had a short phase of conforming to some femme archetypes and then sort of naturally slid back into just being me. i've always preferred a "masculine" style of dress and in fact, having also grown up with rather a feminist approach, by nature and nurture, it never occurred to me that my biological sex meant i had to conform to what society defines as my gender. i'm not comfortable with either "masculine" or "feminine" as words, never mind labels.

i dated bois and i dated wannabe butches, as well as "feminine" women. i dated a few people who defined themselves as femme. it fit way better. it just felt right - as long as they weren't into un-feminist stereotypes too much ... and i try hard not to act in a "chauvinist" way myself, even under the guise of irony.

so for me butch is about ...
  • style
  • walking on the right hand side of her in the way of chivalry i.e. to keep your sword arm free in case you have to protect her (what complete bollocks, but i find myself doing it anyway)
  • feeling like the top even when i'm on the bottom (dang, that's not a butch thing either is it?)
  • lol and it's back to style ... the way i dress, walk, talk ... the way i present myself to the world and the way that the world perceives me.

... and i worship my feminist femme lover - and unlike friendships, a lot of the things i worship about her, are things that are very different to me.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:15 PM   #39
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Strong women are sexy. I date submissive women but they are by no means weak women. They are strong, independent, courageous women.

HOWEVER that said, define strong---mean and cruel under the guise of strong, not attractive.

Rope--
Could not have imagined a better response. KUDOS!
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:42 PM   #40
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AtLastHome:

<<I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not? >>


Being butch has nothing to do with the butch/femme dynamic for me.

I AM butch. I date femmes, which results in being a part of the butch-femme dynamic.

I was butch and I dated femmes long before I knew what the butch-femme dynamic was.

I was a part of it before I knew there was a name for it.
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Are you educated or indoctrinated?
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