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Old 10-10-2017, 03:23 AM   #101
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I don't think I've ever known a butch who has slept with *only* self identified femmes.
there are
straight women
feminine androgynous dykes/just me lesbians
men
genderqueers of all kinds
various kinds of butches
lipstick lesbians
etc etc

I think it would be very, very rare for someone to have only had sex from puberty till now with only self IDing femmes.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:32 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake View Post
I don't think I've ever known a butch who has slept with *only* self identified femmes.
there are
straight women
feminine androgynous dykes/just me lesbians
men
genderqueers of all kinds
various kinds of butches
lipstick lesbians
etc etc

I think it would be very, very rare for someone to have only had sex from puberty till now with only self IDing femmes.
I know you weren't directing this at me, but my post saying that I have never slept with a butch may have prompted your thoughts. I said that because you said you didn't think there was anyone who had not had sex with a butch at some point. I really haven't. Whether they identified as butch, or just looked masculine, I really haven't slept with any masculine presenting females, nor any females who had "masculine energy". Just like people who haven't had sex with someone of the same sex or with someone of the opposite sex, I have personally not had sex with someone who presents/has the energy of a butch/masculine female.

I have slept with two "straight women", but didn't have relationships with them.

My preference is to date/partner with queer femmes. I don't believe I would partner with a "straight woman". Even though I have medically and socially transitioned to "male", I am still queer and a woman who has only ever lived as "straight" and has only ever "lived" in the mainstream, heterosexual community just would not suit me. They wouldn't "get me".

But, like Cheryl said there are a lot of people who "ping" as butch (or femme) to us that don't identify that way.
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:37 PM   #103
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I've never slept with another butch or a trans person. Always been femmes.

Nowadays I am not opposed to sleeping with a butch or trans person, I don't discriminate.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:02 PM   #104
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Nowadays I am not opposed to sleeping with a butch or trans person, I don't discriminate.
Is this because your attractions changed (you didn't use to be attracted to butch of trans people), and you now are? Or were you just worried what people would think, so you always stuck with people who identified as femme
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:26 PM   #105
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Is this because your attractions changed (you didn't use to be attracted to butch of trans people), and you now are? Or were you just worried what people would think, so you always stuck with people who identified as femme
Just worried about what others would think. Nowadays i dont care lol im getting older and too tired of nonsense to worry about what others think these days.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:21 PM   #106
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Cannot recall, in the 50 years since puberty, that there is a sex or gender that I haven't slept with.
Butches of multiple sorts
Femmes of various types
Straight womyn and men
Bisexual womyn and men
Genderqueer people of various genders
Trans men (pre and post-op)
Trans womyn (pre and post-op)

Did I miss anyone? Spent most of my life quite sexually active as you can see.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:14 PM   #107
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Whether they identified as butch, or just looked masculine, I really haven't slept with any masculine presenting females, nor any females who had "masculine energy".
Nor have I. And, while perhaps not every woman I've been with self identified as Femme, I suspect that's at least in part owing to a lack of vernacular. That essence has always been there. It is that exquisite energy that somehow manages to be intangible and palpable at once. I am every ounce the moth willing to be singed by that flame. Long before I had the language for it, I knew who my counterpart had to be. I'd go so far as to say it's not at all a choice for me. Air, water, light, Femme; all elements crucial in the development of my best self.

I don't feel as though I was ever drawn to being butch because I was never on the outside of it. As others have mentioned, I know beyond doubt that I burst into the world this way. When I was younger, when I had long hair, for example, I know my presentation might have not screamed butch, but my core has never changed and these days my external and internal are more aligned. I've never given much thought to defining butch. I guess I simply prefer to live it.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:25 PM   #108
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My impression is that in the SF Bay area, more butches and transmen are into other masculine folk, including cis men, than into femmes or andogynous folk.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:54 PM   #109
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Dapper, from what you are telling me, you have only partnered with self identifying femmes from the age you were first partnering with people.
Not feminine androgynous lesbians who "ping" femme to you and your concept of femme, but actual self identifying femmes.

this is kind of what I am trying to say. Not every feminine accented dyke is a femme, not every slightly masculine lesbian is a butch - this is *WHY* I personally have slept and partnered with more than just butches, because some of my masculine flavoured parters don't ID as butch.

And this is also why many butches also sleep with more than just self-identifying femmes. There are feminine presentations personalities in outwardly gender neutral, tomboyish, or only slightly feminine that "ping" attractions in the "right" way, despite not having a self proclaimed femme ID.

So when someone who is I dunno, my age-ish, and says "I've only dated femmes" I want to know if they mean "I've only dated/partnered with feminine presenting dykes that I considered to be femmes even though the didn't use the ID and we were both really young at the time anyway."

or what. I am sure there are rare instances of someone 50-60 years old only dating and partnering with self identified femmes since they were 15, when they were first sexually active, cause some self ID'd femme found them and educated them about it all in the back of a car or something... but I tend to think most butches when they say stuff like that are either fudging the info a bit slightly, *or* they mean feminine presenting lesbians
and not actually
self identifying femmes.

And we all know how much femmes hated being told they were the same as lipstick lezzos back in the late 90s on the dash site, eh?

*taps finger on side of nose*

ok, just steppin out of thread, it is in the butch zone. Sorry.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:29 AM   #110
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Question Cupcake?

As a point of clarification, what would be the difference between a "femme" and a "lipstick lezzie?" Back in the 90s, in my circle, the terms were used interchangeably.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:51 AM   #111
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I'm not cupcake, but I'm a femme and not a lipstick lezzie. I don't ID as lesbian in any way shape or form but I'm Queer all day long. Back in the day there were far fewer ways to ID so some terms that don't necessarily go together got lumped in or were used interchangeably.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:28 AM   #112
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As a point of clarification, what would be the difference between a "femme" and a "lipstick lezzie?" Back in the 90s, in my circle, the terms were used interchangeably.
I always thought they were one in the same, nowadays there are way too many new labels, etc for me to even keep up with.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:24 PM   #113
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I always thought they were one in the same, nowadays there are way too many new labels, etc for me to even keep up with.
I feel odd doing this in the Butch Zone, but here I go-

For a person who identifies as Femme, it's often a noun. A Femme, not (adjective) feminine, femmish, girly etc. Femme is a specific, often complicated, identity. It may not even involve wearing lipstick. I don't think anyone ever adopted 'lipstick lesbian' as a core identity the way we do when we call ourselves 'Femme'. There is also the curious fact that, as Gemme pointed out, some femme women who partner with butch women don't consider themselves lesbians, which means the term 'lipstick lesbian' isn't relevant to them. Also, 'lipstick lesbian' is really dated, and no longer used very often.
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