Something I just noticed..the very logo of the site

[Gráinne]

Hi, everyone:

Before I begin, I want to be very clear that: 1) this is not a criticism of Medusa and Jack, far from it; 2) I am not trying to start shit (well, a civil discussion is always OK ); and 3) I'm not asking for any changes to the site, as that would be a programmer's nightmare.

Recently there's been some heated threads, and threads gone awry due to a sexist comment or so. And as always on a site like this, there's usually a heavy thread about sexism or oppression.

One "theme" that's discussed often here is "Butches need to be like x, y and z" and "Femmes need to be a, b and c", usually superficial stuff. Closely related is "Femmes want butches who do e, f and g" and "Butches want femmes who do k, l, and m". By and large, whenever that sort of thing pops up, I think we do a pretty good job of handling it.

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

That's why I just noticed the logo of the site-that "butch" is in heavy black writing, sort of "plain", almost, and "femme" is in pretty pink and really curvasive writing. We've just had several threads about how not every butch is masculine or even tomboyish, and I'm a prime example of a "femme" who wouldn't be caught dead being girly and pink.

I guess I'm just surprised and even a bit amused that the logo itself is very "binary". I am NOT trying to offend or begin a huge fight, but I just felt I wanted to speak out and say "Hey, did anyone else see this?"

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's funny cause once upon a thread butches and fellas had requested that the B be bolder... It's grown on me the pink and green and this logo is wayyyy more aesthetic compared to the original.

I can't remember why the color scheme came about but I do like the style of the letter f, not sure why and love the use of black cause it's one of my fave colors

[jac]

Yes, I have actually studied the logo on countless occassions. The pink, green and black circles on the outside ALWAYS remind me of Spirograph. Gawsh there I go thinking games and play again... lol. I am guessing this is the orbit part of it all... And how pink highlights the F, the word femme and the word orbit. For some reason I find the Orbit in pink to be of greater interest to me than the F in pink. I also find it interesting that the choice of color was green and not blue but then again I have my own idea as to why it is...

I would be interested to know the reasoning and meaning behind the logo, the colors, etc.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Some herstory

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...ead.php?t=2219

Originally Posted by stone4play

Yes, I have actually studied the logo on countless occassions. The pink, green and black circles on the outside ALWAYS remind me of Spirograph. Gawsh there I go thinking games and play again... lol. I am guessing this is the orbit part of it all... And how pink highlights the F, the word femme and the word orbit. For some reason I find the Orbit in pink to be of greater interest to me than the F in pink. I also find it interesting that the choice of color was green and not blue but then again I have my own idea as to why it is...

I would be interested to know the reasoning and meaning behind the logo, the colors, etc.

[cara]

I remember June spent days, if not weeks, looking for the perfect "f." I think it's an interesting observation and I, too, have noticed it from the beginning. I'm not offended by it, nor do I think there was an ulterior motive in choosing one font or color over the other. sometimes graphics are graphics with no intention behind them.

[Parker]

I pulled this from the link The Lady Snow provided because it looked like it might help to explain what you're seeing (emphasis mine).

Originally Posted by June

Thanks for playing everyone and for the suggestions.

The fancy font is called TheNautiGal (oddly) and the bold font is called MoolBoran.

I tried the Monogram idea, but because we are working with two swoopy letters, the B and the P, they end up looking better with something between them as more of a design element.

The green got taken a shade darker and we went for black because it made the green and pink pop more. The fancy font also serves as an accent and design element in the rest of the banner.

I have some spacing issues in Orbit I need to fix still. So if you're a little anal - Hold tight, it will get fixed

[iamkeri1]

There are arguments to be made for and against the logo, as there are arguments to be made for or against hundreds of topics, and we argue them every day here on the planet. The argument about the logo may turn out to be fun, but that is not the part of your post that I want to respond to. I want to respond to the quote below.

[QUOTE=guihong;636043]Hi, everyone:
I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", a. nd dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

Forty years ago I was ridiculed at lesbian/gay woman/women who love women/whatever, gatherings for being femme. Butches were pretty acceptable because everyone looked butch. But if you SAID you were butch or that you like femmes, you faced the same ridicule. It was explained to us butches and femmes in almost the same words you use above that we, our identities, feelings, attractions, were passe'


If you or others here are neither butch nor femme, if you are here for broader support, that is fine, and welcome to you. But I am here for support for being femme. I am here to figure out where I fit in the world - following the death of my FTM husband. I was perceived as straight while we were together, but that role no longer fits. And following the years when I finished raising my kids alone ... when I was mother and father, taxi driver, financier, tutor, cheerleader, and disciplinarian. My youngest moved out a month ago so that role no longer fits either. Broke up with my FTM boyfriend a few months ago, so i am on my own entirely. Now I'm rattling around in a house designed for six people, and venturing out for the first time in many years into the gay community trying to answer some very big questions for myself. I am finding support for this journey from ny butch/femme people here.


Who am I? Time will tell. But I start with the knowledge that I am femme.


You're right, we should not label each other. But the people who told me butch/femme were "old time" forty years were wrong when they said the community had evolved beyond butch/femme, and I think you're wrong too. We are not butch or femme because someone has sorted us into a box. We are not looking for a solution that will release us as if we have been imprisoned in our chosen "role." We choose our path or are born into it. We have our struggles, but we're proud of our history and hopefull for the future. We SELF-identify. We like who we are.


There are lots of lesbian sites and gay sites. I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I am interested in this site BECAUSE it is a butch/femme site. I am femme. I am home here... and I am not passe'
Smooches,
Keri

[lillith]

Ok, I am a bit overtired, so if my perception is off or I am reading too much into the details, my apologies. Here is what I see and how it all seems to work:

One (possibility A): the banner combined with the logo looks like a microphone which can indicate that everyone here is allowed, and even encouraged to use their voice. Because of the very nature of what a microphone does, it lends to the idea our voices are important, and perhaps some need a little extra amplification.

One (possibility B): the banner combined with the logo looks like a lollipop which can indicate that all sorts of flavors exists in our universe. It also give the idea that this is a "sweet" place to be.

Two: if you allow your eyes to unfocus while looking at the surrounding circles, you might be able to see that these outer circles actually blend into a multi-structure of varying colors. Again, this gives the impression that no one color dominates over the others. Granted, there are three simple colors, the melding of the three give a rich and lively appearance.

Three: the black background of the circle not only makes the colors pop more, it reminds me of a kind of heaviness, perhaps depth that everyone holds. It is almost like a blackhole without the sucking. It seems to beg each of us to look within to find that place that does not contain any binaries; just regular people with regular lives, but at the same time, the letters force us to understand that not a single one of us is regular. We are all fantastic with light and love to give to the world.

Four: the "B" does not seem basic. It is not the typical Times New Roman or Arial font that we see everyday. It is bolder, riskier. That does not mean that all butches by nature are bolder or riskier, it is just a letter in this way. However, because it is part of the b/f dynamic, the stray away from the more acceptable font can show us that we are original, and capable of being dynamic. The "f" is a almost floral without being overdone. Many femmes I know (myself included) are not physically high maintenance, and it seems apt that this "f" represents us. It is pretty, but not overly so. Now as for the coloring, I adore the fact the "b" and "p" are green. Here again, we stray away from mainstream ideas of what is supposed to be as opposed to what is. The pink is not soft and baby-like. It is strong, assertive, commanding attention. The combination of the colors is playful, cheerful. I do not believe that anything about the logo or banner is anyway suggesting hetero-normative values in an American societal way.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by cara

I remember June spent days, if not weeks, looking for the perfect "f."

Tell me about it.

LOL

[Ginger]

Logos are by necessity, a boiled-down synthesis of what an organization represents.

Choices are made in their design, of elements that are more simplified than in other contexts, for easy and quick visual recognition. In other words, they don't and can't reflect all the nuances of an organization's members or message.

I guess I'm saying, while I usually take symbols deadly seriously, I don't take them that seriously in some contexts. And no I'm not quite awake and I apologize for my Libran contradictory pov.

PS, "Orbit" is in pink italicized script, not just "f" and "femme," so ... oh hell I don't know what I was saying.

[~ocean]

I like the logo ~

[princessbelle]

I totally really agree with lillith's points.

I remember this logo took June forever to do and she had to revamp it a bunch until she and others were satisified. I love it, personally. I realize that is not what this is specifically about, so here are my thoughts...

We are a butch/femme website and not a generic gay one. If this was just a gay site in general, i doubt i would be here. I fit here. In the real gay world it is hard to fit in sometimes when living the B/F lifestyle.

As far as the pink F, I'm guessing here but i believe it is customary when forming a new site to choose a couple specific colors so that your site stands out from the rest. Not sure but i see the other forum sites all have colors picked and they all are different.

I guess if we are trying to let go of any binary, it can come back full circle and make that an ok thing for the femme part to be pink. Or the B part. I believe the people that are regulars here or even the new peeps know, or will soon find out, that pink does not equal femme, nor does it equal girly girl. Neither does blue or purple or yellow.

I think it is more basic than that and the colors just look better on the black with no secret meaning or subliminal message. Even if you read it backwards.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

Are we, really? I understand that we don't want to pro/pre-scribe anyone's gender for them, but a big part of our butch-femme movement was a reaction against second-wave feminism saying we were WRONG for being butch and femme because we were perpetuating the heteronormative gender binary.

I don't want to speak for Medusa, Jack, Rhon, etc., but--- these sites were, as I understand it, created to be a safe space to celebrate genders that did not fit the mainstream lesbian androgynous ideal

A place to come and find acceptance for gender expressions that were rejected in our local lesbian communities

It is great that some of us are able to come here to get support for general gayness, but making that into the purpose of the site ignores our movement's history ***IN MY SELDOM-HUMBLE OPINION***

"getting away from sorting everyone into 'butch' and 'femme'" has been going on since 1968 and many of us felt forced into politically correct expressions that did not match our identity. I personally came to this movement to escape that.

Of course you cannot say "femmes are always pink and frilly, and butches are always hard and blocky" but when you make a logo, you look at the broad strokes and create a shorthand. And looked at in broad strokes, from a distance like a Monet painting, you are absolutely going to see more pink in the femme areas of the canvas. It is not a requirement, but it is a reality

Sooo... I am totally OK with the "f," is what I am saying

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't necessarily see it like this:


Pink = girl/feminine/woman/femme

Green = butch/masculine/guy

I personally look shitty in pink can rock the green while most if not all the guys in my own pack or the butches rock pink with pizzaz!!!


That's more of a binary thought that certain colors = gender..

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'd like to thank the people behind the scenes who take time away from their own lives so I can sit on my ass on my comfy chair hanging out on The Planet!



Thank you cause that's some love!

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think as a community, we're getting away from sorting everyone into "butch" and "femme", and dealing with everyone as an individual. Many of us just can't or won't be boxed into any grouping, despite the site name. I suspect that some of us are really here for broader support for being gay, and not to be any one label.

Do you mean "we" as the whole queer population or "we" as the community of the Planet?

Because I'm certainly not here for the broader support for being gay.

Personally, I identify as queer rather than gay (and yes, for me, there's a difference). I don't need support in being gay.

I need support in being a queer femme.

The logo is the logo is the logo is. There is an inherent binary between butch and femme. It's not a static thing. It's not a line set in stone. It's in sand.

And sand shifts. Then it shifts more. Where there was a dune yesterday there might be smooth, flat planes today. We've seen that here. Where there was a butch, now there's a femme. Or there's a femme who is attracted to both butches and femmes. Etc.

We are a fluid, unique community just like all the other snowflakes. And, for me, if this planet shifted to a broader spectrum, my voice, my needs to talk about, read about, play about who and what I id as, then that would be lost.

So, for me, I'm quite glad we celebrate the binary here.

[BullDog]

Green and pink were already the colors of the site.
The F needed to fit aesthetically between the B and P. June asked for ideas about the font.
We are here because we resonate with the butch femme dynamic.
I think that's about it.
Oh and the fact that June spent tons and tons of time on the logo.

[Gentle Tiger]

Really? Of all the things to spend mental energy on, are we really now dissecting someone's hard work for this community? Really? Have we run out of topics that will lead to positive discussion and moving instead to dissect the logo? Really???

I'm not moderating yet. I'm just amazed!

[Medusa]

When we were discussing the colors for the say way back in March of 2009 (which was a full 7 months before we opened), the conversations were many and varied.

I went back and looked at the chat logs between myself and Juney and Dykeinabox and PapaChris. (these were the folks who I chose to share the idea with and get input and suggestions from) from that time.
I purchased the domain name in January of 2009 and sat on it for 2 months before telling a soul but when we Juney and I had the converation in March about the site, it went something like this:

Me: I'm building a paradise for anyone who wants to come, and I think they will because they're tired of the bullshit.

June: Show me and maybe I'll have time to do a logo!

Me: here it is: www.butchfemmeplanet.com

June: That logo is ugly!

Me: I know!

Thus ensued conversations about what would be fun and less binary. We tried combinations of just about everything and narrowed it down to pink and green and blue and orange. Needless to say, the blue and orange was very Florida Gators and I think the pink and green symbolized a fresh start and new hope.

It really didn't have anything to do with finding representative colors of green for Butches and pink for Femmes although I see how folks can interpret it that way.

It was much more about, what looks good and what makes sense. Green made sense for "fresh" and pink made sense for "hope". We wanted something vibrant and fun, not dark and forboding.

I'll post a pic of the mock up logo I sent June way back in the day so y'all can laugh your asses off.

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Really? Of all the things to spend mental energy on, are we really now dissecting someone's hard work for this community? Really? Have we run out of topics that will lead to positive discussion and moving instead to dissect the logo? Really???

I'm not moderating yet. I'm just amazed!

i asked myself the exact same questions this morning...