Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I do not see that feminine dating masculine is heteronormalitive. I just don't.

Nor do I!!

Assuming it is natural or the norm IS, however.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

Where am I saying that that is heteronormative? Where? I clarified. I am saying it is heteronormative to assume that masculine folks inevitably date feminine.

I think I am probably way more likely to assume that on this website microcosm than I am out in my general Queer circles. That's just based on what I perceive to be the patterns of attraction in this community.

Have certainly seen folks date across all genders here but I do think that the majority of connections I see are based on an attraction that looks very much like a yin/yang.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Martina

Nor do I!!

Assuming it is natural or the norm IS, however.

I haven't seen anyone raise that assumption at all. Who are you talking about that did that?

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.

I'm glad you do that! I think it helps break down some of those pre-conceived notions or maybe patterns of expectation that we all bump into.

I know I feel much the same way (gratitude) when people speak up for "ahem, not all Butches identify as 'he'" and "not all fat Femmes want to lose weight" and "ahem, bottom Butch does NOT equal submissive".

[LadyRieinAL]

Every Butch who has ever dated a femme is some femmes Ex

And are all femmes to be considered Sister femmes to every femme on Planet?

Perhaps it would it be better for each butch to come with a warning label - Be forewarned my ex is _____ and ______ and ______.

And at what time does my own desire, my own happines mean anything - Good lord, does this mean I'm bad and wrong if I find someone attractive who has dated someone on Planet who is someone's EX.

And If I decide to do the right thing in another femme's eyes and not date her EX, will she help me look outside of Planet for someone for me to date?

And is this discussion about any Ex on Planet OR the just the Ex of a femme that I've developed a bond?

I hate stepping on other people's hearts - why did this subject have to come up - man!! NOW I have more worries on my plate.

My little list of what is acceptable for a perspective date has just become almost Nil.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.

Ahhh, see I post with the assumption Ex meant ex period, not just specific to butch.femme relationships.

I'm personally not goinfriendship friendship over lust/dating that goes across the gender board.

[Martina]

I like gender. I like people who rock it, be they femme, butch, genderqueer or something else.

I also like power; powerful people do it for me.

I am not interested in someone because they are butch or femme. I like butch. I like femme. But I like my kinda butch and my kinda femme. Butches who are not like the kind who do it for me -- I am no more interested in than in anyone else who does not ring my bell.

What I do get from butches and femmes that I am grateful for (and need) is that mutual recognition that we offer one another, that respect and appreciation of one another that we so far can only get from one another. I value that highly.

Edited to add: This probably seems like it follows from nothing. Just commenting on the Ying-Yang thing. I am not so ying yang except where power is concerned. Not so much with gender.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by LadyRieinAL

Every Butch who has ever dated a femme is some femmes Ex

And are all femmes to be considered Sister femmes to every femme on Planet?

Perhaps it would it be better for each butch to come with a warning label - Be forewarned my ex is _____ and ______ and ______.

And at what time does my own desire, my own happines mean anything - Good lord, does this mean I'm bad and wrong if I find someone attractive who has dated someone on Planet who is someone's EX.

And If I decide to do the right thing in another femme's eyes and not date her EX, will she help me look outside of Planet for someone for me to date?

And is this discussion about any Ex on Planet OR the just the Ex of a femme that I've developed a bond?

I hate stepping on other people's hearts - why did this subject have to come up - man!! NOW I have more worries on my plate.

My little list of what is acceptable for a perspective date has just become almost Nil.

Lady-

I perceive people to be talking about *very* close friendships, not the casual connections that I think you are describing.

Just for example, June and I are very close friends. She is my sistergirl and I have known her and her partner for going on 8 or 9 years now. I love them both.
They also know Jackhammer and I has a couple. We have been in each other's homes several times and June and I are probably responsible for keeping AT&T in business with thousands of hours of phone calls.

We are close in ways that are super intimate and I have confided in her as she has in me about very personal things. If she and Kat broke up, you couldn't PAY me to date Kat. Or even consider it. (and that isn't because I don't think Kat is awesome, because she is, but she is my girl's partner and therefor off limits in huge ways fo-eva-eva).

And honestly, it's not even something that will ever come up because my relationship with Jackhammer is forever and #2 My friendship with June is a primary friendship.

[The_Lady_Snow]

You're welcome to date any of my exes!!

Originally Posted by LadyRieinAL

Every Butch who has ever dated a femme is some femmes Ex

And are all femmes to be considered Sister femmes to every femme on Planet?

Perhaps it would it be better for each butch to come with a warning label - Be forewarned my ex is _____ and ______ and ______.

And at what time does my own desire, my own happines mean anything - Good lord, does this mean I'm bad and wrong if I find someone attractive who has dated someone on Planet who is someone's EX.

And If I decide to do the right thing in another femme's eyes and not date her EX, will she help me look outside of Planet for someone for me to date?

And is this discussion about any Ex on Planet OR the just the Ex of a femme that I've developed a bond?

I hate stepping on other people's hearts - why did this subject have to come up - man!! NOW I have more worries on my plate.

My little list of what is acceptable for a perspective date has just become almost Nil.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Miss Tia, I appreciate that you read and "got it" exactly as written!

Just simple human kindness. Femme to femme kindness.

Dating the ex of a close, sister-heart femme would not even be in my own personal universe of clear boundaries but neither would hurting a non-close acquaintance by flirting in front a recently dumped or in pain femme.

That is just me.

I get that many of you have a different belief or value system.

We certainly do not always agree on the Planet and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as is our right.

Anya, I think it's great that you shared this and started a discussion about it. But I feel like you put these questions out there, asked for everyone's opinions, and then essentially snubbed your nose at anyone who has a different take on the situation. Your disclaimer that you understand that many of "us" have a different belief or value system sounds judgmental to me.

Your original post included these questions: "What do you feel about this? Is it OK because the couple were broken up? Is there a respectable amount of time that should pass before you, as a femme, flirt with or date a friend's ex in front of another femme sister-even if not you are not close friends? Does it matter? Is it different online vs. real life? Your thoughts? "

I think all of those questions are worthy of asking, but then your responses to those that didn't answer as you would, just seem... judgmental. I don't know any other way of saying it. What was the point of asking the questions? You thanked Tia for "getting it exactly as written." What is it that you think the rest of us didn't "get?"

[macele]

for me it would be the same thing if i get into a relationship/date my heterosexual male friend's ex.

makes no difference if my friend is homosexual/heterosexual/transexual/bisexual/butch/femme, etc. ... it's still my friends ex.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I am trying to understand Martina.

Aren't we talking about dating a friend's ex here?...

Actually, there are 2 discussions going on. The original post stated the two women were NOT friends, they were acquaintances. The thread did go off on another discussion of dating friends' exes, and ex's friends, and other combinations.

[always2late]

I don't think that I could ever date a good friend's ex...and I certainly wouldn't flirt with them in front of my friend. I think that for me, personally, it is a matter of respect for my friend's feelings. But I also think it depends on the friend as well...and their feelings for their ex. For example, in my younger years, I hung around with a group of friends and we all had what were basically lust-driven, short-lived dating relationships. In our circle, several people dated each other's exes and it never caused any conflict within the group...because there were no truly deep feelings involved.

[*Anya*]

Wow Queen of Smirks!

I snubbed my nose at no one and clearly said we all have our own opinions and and as usual, many of us disagree.

I DO get that many if you have a different value or belief system. In what universe is that not OK?

Rhetorical question because I don't know if you play devils advocate or what but you do tend to frequently poke at an opinion that you do not agree with.

That feels real judgmental to me!!

In the same way that you are entitled to your opinion:

I am also entitled to mine!!

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

Actually, there are 2 discussions going on. The original post stated the two women were NOT friends, they were acquaintances. The thread did go off on another discussion of dating friends' exes, and ex's friends, and other combinations.

Yes it did.

Edited to add: All of our threads do. Well, most of them. Good convos happen that way sometimes.

[gaea]

Originally Posted by LadyRieinAL

Every Butch who has ever dated a femme is some femmes Ex

And are all femmes to be considered Sister femmes to every femme on Planet?

Perhaps it would it be better for each butch to come with a warning label - Be forewarned my ex is _____ and ______ and ______.

And at what time does my own desire, my own happines mean anything - Good lord, does this mean I'm bad and wrong if I find someone attractive who has dated someone on Planet who is someone's EX.

And If I decide to do the right thing in another femme's eyes and not date her EX, will she help me look outside of Planet for someone for me to date?

And is this discussion about any Ex on Planet OR the just the Ex of a femme that I've developed a bond?

I hate stepping on other people's hearts - why did this subject have to come up - man!! NOW I have more worries on my plate.

My little list of what is acceptable for a perspective date has just become almost Nil.

I agree whole heartedly with all the above here....

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Honestly, I don't put the responsibility for that on the new partner or prospect though...I put that responsibility on the ex.

I think the above is important to repeat.


Anya, I can tell by your very emotional reaction to this situation/subject that you really care for your friend. I hope that this will soon be a distant memory for her and bitterness stays far away.

[Dance-with-me]

Many good points have been made. The main one that I agreed with is the issue of acquaintance vs good friend. A good friend's ex would be off limits for me without a considerable amount of discussion with that friend. But to exclude acquaintances' ex's would be unreasonably limiting in an already limited and therefor unavoidably incestuous community.

And I have to say honestly that in a situation of A and B break up, A starts dating C then gets hurt because her acquaintance D is flirting with her ex B at a party? Sorry, but to me, there's too many degrees of separation there in MY mind for A to justify getting upset that her ex and an acquaintance are flirting when A already has someone new.

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Is it different online vs. real life?

I guess I'm not understanding this question in the context of a situation that you described as being all "real life" and not online. Do you mean people who are acquaintances only online? Or people who are real-life acquaintances but who interact online? or do you mean online "dating" without having ever met?

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

I think the above is important to repeat.


Anya, I can tell by your very emotional reaction to this situation/subject that you really care for your friend. I hope that this will soon be a distant memory for her and bitterness stays far away.

I think a lot of folks had many reactions to several of the issues that evolved out of the original post. I wrote mine no more or less "very emotionally" than anyone else has posted here. I might add, are women not frequently told by bio men that they are "very emotional" when voicing an opinion strongly? That is another thread, I guess.

Did I react negatively to being told I "snubbed my nose" and was "judgmental" to those with different opinions? Yes. That clearly felt like a personal attack to me. Actually, it was. I ensure that I make no personal attacks or use judgmental attacks on others when I disagree and pride myself on that. Should I have said that the poster appeared to be devils advocate? No, I should not have. I was being reactive and I do apologize for that. I do not feel proud of my reaction in that case.

As I have said in many posts since I joined, that is the beauty of the Planet: that we are all entitled to our reactions, both positive and negative and I believe that several folks in this thread agreed and several did not.

One post can prompt 10 different opinions. I may not agree with 5 of the 10 and may say so, but I defend to the end their right to that opinion and to say so (as long as we do so without personal attacks on those with which we disagree).

We do not all have to agree and we certainly can support opinions both pro and con, as anyone can see by all posts in this thread.

I feel for any femme or butch dealing with a breakup-regardless of who they may be.

All of us know what that feels like.

I will never apologize for advocating kindness towards anyone's sadness, be it loss of a relationship or any other type of loss. It does not matter to me if one is a close friend or someone I hardly know.

I advocated for discretion with the person she only knew casually. No nose rubbing was necessary-in my opinion.

The friend issues was an offshoot that just arose as it usually does around here. No, I personally would not date the ex of a friend. Again, my opinion!

I state my own opinion, just the same way everyone else does on the Planet.

[tantalizingfemme]

Wow, you completely misinterpreted my post. Not sure why you are so defensive to a simple post pointing out how I noticed how much you care about your friend.

Btw, this is coming as femme to femme, not bio-male to femme.