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Old 09-18-2010, 06:24 PM   #1
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The thread is for posing and answering questions about Butch (female or male identified) identity which is non-transgendered relating to our b-F dynamic and historical shared narrative which the site embraces. However, no one is excluded from asking or answering questions here. The reason why the title/intent is non-trans simply has to do with a specific thread for this population not being on the site presently. There is a "Ask a Transperson" thread in the Trans Zone. I think there is an "Ask a Femme" thread as well (?).

When I was new to the B-F dynamic, just being able to ask questions (no matter the content) about both butch and femme was really helpful to me- and this is the spirit of this thread - to be in a safe and non-threatening, non-judgemental environment to ask and answer questions, discuss ideas and share with members. There really are not any dumb questions!



So... ask butches some stuff!
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:34 PM   #2
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WHERE ARE ALL THE SEXI FLORIDA BUTCHES HIDING!!!!!!??????
Thats my question....I DO NOT do the bar scene.......I am at a loss......and a tad FrUStraTED!!!

Thanks for letting me vent.....WHEWW

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Old 09-18-2010, 06:41 PM   #3
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I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:02 PM   #4
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I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
I knew i was a lesbian for a long time but i never realized i was butch until i was like 17 LoL It really don't think butch/femme dynamics are a choice. i didn't do anything to be butch i dressed and acted that way because that is who i am and how i felt comfortable.
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:15 PM   #5
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Ahhh Butch-ness...there is nothing like it for me...It was not a decision or something I thought about until a year ago (roughly). I kno who I am and what I like. Not coming out till I was 20yrs old but didnt even change one thing about the way I dressed(someone should have told me it was "ok" much sooner)...
It is a part of me from who I am attracted to...to how I dress and hair-style... to my lack of decorating sense, but can build u just about anything. It is the innate skills and desires we have.
I don't have to have an identifier/label to know this is who I am...but it does fit me quite well
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:18 PM   #6
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caustic i was wondering where all the femmes into butches were. i didn't think they existed anymore LoL
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:19 PM   #7
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Looking back over the years I figure out a long time ago when I was about four I wasnt like my girl cousins and never would be.When my mom amd aunts would get all of us together to go buy school clothes or something nice for the hollidays I was usely off in the boys clothes department cause thats what I was suposed to wear...not girlie things.I didnt have much of a choice so I had to go along with it cause mom said so..big time.Funny thing is mom never had a prob buying me boys clothes for the most part,just as long as I wore the dam girl stuff when I had to.Many time is in school I got the evil eye from mother superior about my rough and tumble ways,u bet I got the u r a girl talk even tho in my mind and heart I knew I was somewhere in between she/he.I learned a lot from bothe sided of my growing up,one side made me strong,able to hande many things others couldnt.The other gave me enough girl smarts to stay out of trouble because by time I was old enough to figure out I was a queer baby butch that I needed to keep myself safe cause if I didnt who else would.I took a lot of greif about it but made it through the worst ok.Things are still a work in progress and will always be so.
More later.
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Old 08-03-2015, 10:06 PM   #8
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Speaking for myself only,I would hate it if my lady told me she likes fucking straight men..like WTF!!
It would be I suppose a jealous thing for me,because I like to think I can fullfill my lady's needs in everyway possible.

This is the kicker..ready?

I do fuck men.I am a butch woman..I don't see anything wrong with me doing it.I mean i'm not involved with any bio-man at the moment.But it was not that long ago that I had an affair with a man,which ended as quickly as it started.She knows about these 'flings' and told me its just primal urges *snort*

If She had any primal urges like mine,i'd probably end the relationship.

Is it a double standard?

Affair to me means some romance and then wham bam thank you,i'm gone.

I don't think i'm cheating on her,she doesn't either.

I'd like to marry this woman some day,but I wouldn't blame her if she left me tomorrow.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sweetbutch26 View Post
I knew i was a lesbian for a long time but i never realized i was butch until i was like 17 LoL It really don't think butch/femme dynamics are a choice. i didn't do anything to be butch i dressed and acted that way because that is who i am and how i felt comfortable.
LOL.. you were way ahead of me! got the lesbian thing in my late 20's, but not the butch factor until my late 40's!! Well, it was always there, I just had no real models or lived in a time and place until then to just hit my comfort zone.

Something that I really like seeing these days are young butches being who they are so much younger than it was for me. Feels good!!
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:17 PM   #10
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goes to show that our community has come a long way. we are still fighting for our rights but winning the war one small battle at a time. homophobia will soon be a thing of the past.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:22 AM   #11
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Eons ago, when I was first testing the waters of gay life, I was attracted to that butch energy.I kept finding myself attracted to women who had that "masculine" edge. Then I discovered that a few of the women i liked, felt oppressed by people who found them to be masculine. I didn't understand why they wore men's clothes and sported men's haircuts if they didn't want people to think they were masculine. But I liked/loved them, so I didn't want to say or do anything that added to their feelings of oppression.(But in my secret heart I was still attracted to that energy!)

As time went by I began to meet folks who LIKED being butch and that was a time for me of feeling really comfortable in my world. I had a pretty butch spouse and lots pretty butch (and femme) friends. I felt "normal" not "in the closet" as I had felt with my more andro lesbian friends.

Then my darling decided to transition, and one by one most of those pretty butch friends decided to transition as well. "WTF!" I thought to myself, "Is there really is no such thing as a butch? - are they all just guys waiting for the right time to become who they were born to be?" Or maybe they won't actually transition because the available surgery isn't that great?" A very confusing time for me.

Then one day, a few years before hubby died, I was having a very lonely night. A night where I was feeling really strongly that while I had kept my darling by staying with him (and very much wanting to stay with him) during and after his transition, that I had lost myself. Was I still a femme? Was I still gay? Anyway, I was sitting by my computer, and I typed the word "femme" into the search bar and found b-f. What a rush! There were still people out there like me. There was a place where we were welcome. And wonder of wonder - there really were butches still alive out there. I felt so happy! But then I felt guilty because I felt drawn back to a place where hubby (I thought ) could no longer go. I didn't stick around long enough to find out that trans folk were welcome too. I didn't find that out till several years later when I returned after hubby died.

Well, I just can't seem to do a short post, but thanks for starting this thread. I don't have any questions right now, but I have a lot of love for people of butch persuasion, LOL, and I want to hear what y'all have to say.

Smooches,
Keri
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by AtLastHome View Post
I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
Good question. I've been thinking a lot about this and related subjects lately, actually, which was sparked by the posts of others on their own identities as well as my own in the male id'd butches vs. FTM thread. Probably more specifically on what drew me and continues to draw me toward the use of butch as far as my identity. We obviously all have different meanings and understandings as far as how we understand ourselves, despite that we may use terms to identify ourselves that are similar to those who have different interpretations of them as far as their own identity.

So the question of what drew me to the B-F dynamic is kind of complicated, I think. First, because I've come to think that butch is nothing beyond what each individual butch understands it to be, and as such I could only be drawn to the dynamic through my own interpretation, I could never be drawn to it as a result of a fixed/universal definition of butch. At the same time, I think that I did have a certain definition of butch in my head when I first encountered the B-F dynamic, but what I chose to see and adopt was more a reflection of what was going on in my head than what the dynamic means to other people (though some do share my thoughts, it's probably nowhere close to being what the majority think).

That said, I think what drew me to the B-F dynamic is exactly that. That I could look at this dynamic and see something of myself in it when I had never experienced that before. I was never able to identify as a lesbian for a number of reasons, primarily because I didn't consider myself female, but as a male born in the wrong body, so to speak. Because of that I felt pretty lost as to what I was and where I might find some sense of myself. Coming into contact with the B-F dynamic was a big relief for me because it gave me the resources to further explore where I was as far as sexual orientation and gender. It also introduced me to femmes, which was the other primary aspect that drew me to the dynamic beyond figuring myself out. I think that when I first came into contact with the B-F dynamic I did have a set idea of what femme was, what butch was and what the dynamic was, and I do think it was a certain interpretation of what femme/butch was that initially drew me in.

Obviously all those definitions are purely my own since there are as many definitions of butch/femme/the dynamic as there are individuals within it, but I think what I initially interpreted as "femme" was merely what I, as an individual, happened to be attracted to in a femme rather than the definition of femme. I think it was almost like a magnetic reaction in a sense. I was drawn to what most seemed to fit me and what I was attracted to in women and assumed that because I was attracted to that part of the dynamic, that that aspect defined the dynamic.

Yet, obviously most butches don't define butch the way I define butch, but I think that can be said for every butch, whether they share labels (soft, stone, male, woman, female, TG etc.) or not. Hell, there are a million and one definitions of stone butch alone, nevermind every other butch id. Even within the same identities absolutely nothing is black and white. We're all different yet we all still see something within the dynamic that attracts us, and in some cases its entirely different things that attract us.

I think that's really the beauty of the dynamic. The dynamic can be whatever those attracted to it want it to be, because there is a niche, so to speak, within it for everyone that is attracted to it. There was one point in my life where I thought that what was "historically" butch/femme fit me, but then I came to see that other people saw what was "historically" b/f differently.

In short, what initially drew me to the B-F dynamic and to the adoption of butch as a part of my identity was the part of the dynamic that reflected my personality, my gender, my sexual attractions. What continues to draw me to the B-F dynamic (beyond, of course, certain commonalities in gender identification and sexual orientation) is nearly the exact opposite in that my interest is peeked by the fact that it continues to open unfathomable numbers of doors as far as human diversity in gender identity and sexual orientation. I think in that respect its impossible to be boxed into butch/femme (or any identity) since even the most "old school" add their own unique twist as to what they consider butch/femme in themselves.

[/ramble]

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Old 09-19-2010, 03:52 PM   #13
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I have no idea where the femmes are in my town,I know there are some but they are with someone,once I walked up to a butch some years younger than me and respectufully intoduced myself so dureing the convo I ask where are all the ladies anywhere close to my age..he laughed and said they either passed,gave up or left town.I know u all are out there some where..but where???
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:20 PM   #14
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I've tried some labels. What I like about butch is it sorta covers all of me. I feel like I am basically a skeleton underneath all of this and filled with spirit. I guess that is what is important for my identity.

I was born butch. As long as I remember I have just loved girls...girl girls. I have wanted to be married since I was five years old. Still not that yet.

So being butch was a feeling I can never remember being without. That's how I came out of the womb.

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Old 09-22-2010, 06:47 PM   #15
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I came to the identify as butch fairly recently. It's been more of an answer for my identity. I've never personally met someone else who identified as butch or femme so I'm hoping to get a sense of community from here. Prior to the last few months I had identified as trans. I didn't really learn about butch women at all until the beginning of this summer through internet resources. I'm kinda of drawn to thinking of butch as a gender in and of itself.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:18 PM   #16
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I've tried some labels. What I like about butch is it sorta covers all of me. I feel like I am basically a skeleton underneath all of this and filled with spirit. I guess that is what is important for my identity.

I was born butch. As long as I remember I have just loved girls...girl girls. I have wanted to be married since I was five years old. Still not that yet.

So being butch was a feeling I can never remember being without. That's how I came out of the womb.
Thanks.
What you say about butch is how you came out of the womb is interesting to me. I think many of us may have part or all of this belief. When I consider this, it makes my identification stronger and my belief in it as just fine as it is much stronger. That is what will come up for me when asked about ever wanting to transition. No, I'm fine just as I am is at the root of what I feel. And I want a space in our society in which this is so. No questions about being more male than female, or assumptions made about any of my butch attributes. Not my personal alignment with indeed being female (other butches feel differently), not any question about butch being what is true and comfortable for many.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by AtLastHome View Post
I would like to know from other butches, how you view the B-F dynamic in terms of how and why you were initially drawn to it. Is it mostly about attraction to femmes for you- or does it run deeper in terms of your butch identity? Maybe you have an attachment to butch historically (going back to what defined butch years ago), within a class, ethnic or racial perspective... or not?
Interesting thread.

Like others have said, identity is an individual thing. I would add to it...shaped by the times in which you lived and the experiences you incurred along the way.

I was raised the only daughter in a very patriarchal Italian family. I always envied the preferences and privileges given to males. I also was a tomboy who preferred sports and tree climbing to playing with dolls and makeup. I had a hard time understanding why there were differences based on sex organs and never felt like I fit in either mode. (these were the days when the newspaper ads had separate help wanted sections for men and women.)

And I loved women, particularly older women. I loved the energy of being around them. And I was always aware of how that changed when males entered the picture. Funny the things you see as a child. And, the attempts to turn me into the prevailing concept of a "lady" were daunting. My mother still doesnt appreciate the irony of insisting I go to an all female school so I could learn to be a lady (or a lesbian). Sometimes you give a little to get something in return

The womens movement and gay rights movement both influenced my identity. I was always happy to be a female. My idea of a female and what a female could achieve and do in the world was different, but I never questioned my gender. I was more comfortable in pants and oxfords which were more conducive to my tomboy pursuits than girlie clothing would be. The womens movement just accentuated how I always felt as a woman i.e. capable, achievement oriented ( I insisted I would be the first woman to attend Providence College. Didnt happen but it was a dream of mine), physically active, just living, being all that I thought I could be without my gender limiting me.

The gay rights movement influenced me as well. I was not very keen on the traditional b-f thing back then because it seemed very focused on traditional male/female roles, perceptions, and relationships - the very thing I was trying not to be. I always felt women could do better than that and spent a lot of time exploring the various options that were developing.

I came back to the b-f mold when it seemed to shed its hetero influences and incorporate more woman defined/oriented aspects. That felt more like the person I was/am. I may be more attuned to my masculine side but not at the expense of my feminine side - there can be a lopsided balance

I still wear comfortable clothing but would never think of buying mens clothes except for their sneakers which are made better. I am the least handyish butch you will ever meet but I am a great go-fer and direction reader. But, I do know how to treat a lady like the lady she is

The b-f community today, to me, is different again with a more visible trans influence. I respect the journeys of our brothers but as a lesbian and a feminist I find this confusing. Sometimes I feel like Rip Van Winkle, awakening to a new reality, I still havent quite grasped yet.

And age does play a huge role here as others have indicated. As I get older and more settled, I focus my energies closer to home.

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Old 09-23-2010, 02:00 AM   #18
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What femme look(and attitude) most attracts you?
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:31 AM   #19
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I am oh, so all over the map with what attracts me to a femme! i don't have a "type," really unless it rests on her self-emamination. Mainly it's about the way she carries herself and intelligence. I know I key into sensuality much more than sexiness. Just how I'm wired. LOL, I also am just not one to talk all that much about what I consider private between me and someone I am seeing or involved with.

I may think a femme is attractive at first, then after talking to her for a bit, no longer be. I'm sure this is the same for many femmes as well.

I'm not exactly sure why, but, I don't use terms like "hot." That is something to me that goes far beyond the outside of a femme. I also get tired of people being described in terms of looks anyway. How many times have you tried to think of what to say when another butch goes on and on about a femme they think is attractive and you just don't? Doesn't mean I don't think she is smart or a warm person, or interesting- I just don't see what the other butch does or in the same way. Eye of the beholder.....

Of course, chemistry and heat are ingredients I seek, but, they have to blend with all of the other things that draw me to someone.

Hummm... now 25 or 30 years ago, my answer may have been different! I remember being driven by my hormones. Just not the same anymore. But, way better in various ways. There go those life-cycles again! I think I am OK for 59. Nothing special, nothing horrible. I know I am a good human being, but have faults like everyone else. I still can see that some femmes are attracted to me, others are not. I appreciate the ones that are very much!
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:17 AM   #20
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Thus why I said look & attitude...lol
I am begining to think that I like a look that has come and gone...or I simply live in the wrong part of the country to find it...
I am a sucker for the 50's housewife look...skirt or dress always, even the apron, mmmm yes very nice...but it seems I will not find any woman anymore who actually wears skirts/dresses more often than not...
And a trait you cannot change...when her emotions show in her eyes, no matter how hard she tries to hide it with the rest of her actions...
As far as attitude goes...a lady who says hon or dear to almost everyone she knows...one who can be shy, playful, or an out-right vixen when need be...

Oh be still my heart...find me one like that .....someday
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